Discusión del usuario:KIENGIR

¡Bienvenido!

¡Unas galletitas para darte la bienvenida!

¡Bienvenido a Wikipedia , KIENGIR! Gracias por tus contribuciones . Soy Marek69 y he estado editando Wikipedia durante bastante tiempo, así que si tienes alguna pregunta, no dudes en dejarme un mensaje en mi página de discusión . También puedes consultar Wikipedia:Preguntas o escribir al final de esta página. A continuación, se muestran algunas páginas que pueden resultarte útiles:{{helpme}}

• Introducción
• Los cinco pilares de Wikipedia
• Cómo editar una página
• Páginas de ayuda
• Cómo escribir un buen artículo

Además, cuando publiques en las páginas de discusión, debes firmar con tu nombre usando cuatro tildes (~~~~); eso generará automáticamente tu nombre de usuario y la fecha. ¡Espero que disfrutes editando aquí y siendo un wikipedista !

Marek . 69 ^discusión 22:14 19 septiembre 2011 (UTC) [ responder ]

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Junta Directiva de ANI

Hola. Este mensaje se envía para informarle de que actualmente hay una discusión en Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de administradores/Incidencias sobre un problema en el que usted puede haber estado involucrado. Gracias. Adrian ( discusión ) 10:19 15 nov 2011 (UTC) [ responder ]

Sugerencia

Decirle a todos en un hilo de ANI que responderás a un bloqueo creando una nueva cuenta es básicamente pedir que te bloqueen indefinidamente, repetidamente. Es una elección de palabras muy imprudente, especialmente en un tablón de anuncios que está muy vigilado por administradores. -- Blackmane ( discusión ) 01:14 16 nov 2011 (UTC) [ responder ]

Querido Blackmane, ¡no tengo nada que temer! También he hecho una reacción a este mensaje en el foro de ANI. Allí entenderás por qué hice este tipo de declaración irónica. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 12:15 16 nov 2011 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Mihai Viteazul

KIENGIR, he seguido con mucha atención el debate sobre Mihai Viteazul y he observado que, si bien se han logrado algunos avances, el acuerdo sobre ciertas cuestiones todavía parece lejano. Creo que algunos de los problemas pueden deberse a un simple malentendido: es perfectamente posible hablar de una "unión" en el sentido de una "unión personal", es decir, territorios distintos, con sus propios sistemas políticos y particularidades, todos ellos bajo el gobierno personal de una sola persona. Obviamente, el control de Mihai sobre Valaquia, Moldavia y Transilvania no dio como resultado que los tres principados se convirtieran literalmente en un solo estado. Incluso los historiadores nacionalistas rumanos más entusiastas se sienten obligados a admitirlo, y no creo que nadie aquí esté sugiriendo lo contrario. ¿Te sentirías más cómodo con el artículo si especificáramos que el control de Mihai sobre los tres principados era una unión "personal" que no implicaba que los tres principados se "unieran" en un solo estado unitario? Hubacelgrand ( discusión ) 04:50 21 nov 2011 (UTC) [ responder ]

Hola, te responderé en tu página de discusión ( KIENGIR (discusión) 00:47 22 nov 2011 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Hola. He dejado una respuesta en mi página de discusión. Saludos. Hubacelgrand ( discusión ) 14:26 23 nov 2011 (UTC) [ responder ]

Idioma húngaro

Hola,

He iniciado una discusión en la página de discusión sobre ediciones recientes. Si lo deseas, participa en la discusión y mientras tanto no cambies la parte establecida y referenciada del artículo. Saludos. Adrian ( discusión ) 22:32 8 oct 2012 (UTC) [ responder ]

Gracias por tu respuesta. Por favor, continúa esta discusión en la página de discusión del artículo. No he causado ningún conflicto la última vez[1] ni me interesa hacerlo ahora. Debes entender que Wikipedia funciona según algunas políticas que todo wikipedista debería respetar. He visto tu mensaje en mi página de discusión y creo que este razonamiento es erróneo. Hablemos (por ejemplo) como chilenos (yo) y como escoceses (tú). Por favor, intenta hablar más allá de quién es quién y céntrate en los datos. No estoy aquí para "ayudar" a mi nación ni creo que tú también lo estés. Creo que es la mejor manera de lograr la neutralidad. Saludos. Adrian ( discusión ) 12:11 10 oct 2012 (UTC) [ responder ]

Siempre estoy dispuesto a hablar sobre cualquier artículo. En el caso del artículo de Eric Bicfalvi hay una fuente respetable ( Gazeta Sporturilor ) que escribe una sección sobre su origen donde afirman que es de origen sueco. Por otro lado, tenemos una fuente que afirma ser de origen húngaro. Por favor, consulta otros artículos similares, te darás cuenta de que este es un uso estándar en casos como este. Si lo deseas, consulta este caso con otros usuarios para conocer también su opinión. Cuando hay una disputa entre fuentes, para preservar la neutralidad, los wikipedistas suelen utilizar la frase "Según xxx, según yyy". Saludos. Adrian ( discusión ) 23:26 10 octubre 2012 (UTC) [ responder ]

He hecho un cambio en el artículo de Eric Bicfalvi , puse la información sobre el origen húngaro como principal. Debes entender que si tienes una fuente que indique que Lima está ubicada en Escocia , agregaremos esos datos al artículo, no importa si son ciertos o no. A menos que sea una fuente desconocida mambo-jumbo. Los periódicos se toman como una fuente bastante seria. No sé cuál es tu experiencia con respecto a Wikipedia, pero debes entender que la verificabilidad lo es todo. WP:SOURCE - Incluso si estás seguro de que algo es cierto, debe ser verificable antes de poder agregarlo . Lee esta política. Si tienes alguna duda al respecto, no dudes en contactar a cualquier otro usuario para consultarlo. Por ejemplo, si tienes una fuente confiable que indique que Victor Ponta es de Zimbabwe, esta información se incluiría en el artículo. En qué forma eso aún está por verse, pero seguramente se incluiría en la forma "Según Criss Rain, Victor Ponta es de origen de Zimbabwe". Así es como funciona Wikipedia cuando se trata de agregar datos. Espero haberme explicado bien. Adrian ( discusión ) 23:05 11 oct 2012 (UTC) [ responder ]

Buen día

Buen día KIENGIR. Te sugiero que te reenvíes por Talk:Ocupación húngara de Bačka y Baranja . No te reenviaré, pero estás navegando demasiado cerca del viento y terminarás siendo castigado por editar la guerra. Saludos, Peacemaker67 ( enviar... cambio ) 00:27, 21 de noviembre de 2012 (UTC) [ responder ]

He respondido en la página. Mi argumentación es profesional y puede ser entendida por cualquier experto en historia o angloparlante, o incluso por la gente común. He demostrado todos los puntos y no haré más modificaciones después de cualquier discusión. Es largo, algunas cosas no se pueden explicar muy brevemente, porque los trolls luego intentan encontrar 1000 formas de argumentos y premisas falsas, por eso es mejor ver casi todas las cosas complementarias que conducen a la conclusión. Saludos.( KIENGIR (discusión) 00:41 21 nov 2012 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Inspección de la inducción

Se sospecha que usted está utilizando varias cuentas de Wikipedia para fines prohibidos. Por favor, familiarícese con las notas del sospechoso y luego responda a la evidencia en Wikipedia:Investigaciones sobre títeres de calcetín/Thehoboclown . Gracias. Stickee (discusión) 03:02 19 nov 2014 (UTC) [ responder ]

Hola, estoy sorprendido y dolido, respondí, no se presentó ninguna prueba por parte de FromOradea, lamentablemente solo es una manifestación de una mente frustrada y fantástica, pero vea los detalles allí, también responderé en su página personal y en la suya. Es una lástima que algunas personas en lugar de estar interesadas en una enciclopedia profesional, hagan acusaciones extrañas. Tuyo ( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:19 16 dic 2014 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Acabo de darme cuenta de que el acusador (FromOradea) fue baneado por manipulación :) Qué cambio de guión... bueno, gracias a todos por el arbitraje objetivo ( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:25 16 dic 2014 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Discusión sobre la ciudadanía de Tesla

Te invito a participar en la discusión. Abrí una RfC y presenté algunas fuentes. También tengo una petición, ya que tú y yo acordamos en tu edición del 10 de mayo que la ciudadanía de Tesla desde 1867 hasta 1892 debería indicarse como austriaca. Desde entonces investigué algunas fuentes y descubrí que eso es falso (puedes ver las fuentes en la página de discusión). Intenté revertir tu edición e iniciar una discusión para que se pueda establecer un consenso, pero la gente sigue revirtiéndome con la explicación de que no he establecido un consenso para revertirte, cuando de hecho participé en el consenso que introdujo esa edición. Eso es completamente irrazonable ya que en esa lógica puedo hacer una edición ridícula (por ejemplo, que la Tierra es plana) y revertir a todos con la explicación de que no se ha establecido un consenso para revertir mi edición. El motivo para revertir tu edición es forzar que se establezca un consenso sobre las fuentes presentadas. Me temo que mucha gente se opondrá y que la conclusión será que no hay consenso para cambiar la formulación actual. Me encontré en una situación similar cuando intenté editar el lugar de nacimiento de Tesla. Presenté varias docenas de fuentes, de las cuales una gran mayoría apoyaba mi postura, sin embargo, mucha gente "votó" por no hacer ningún cambio, por lo que la formulación actual se mantuvo aunque la mayoría de las fuentes están en contra. Existe la posibilidad de que esto suceda ahora, y sería irracional ya que la formulación actual no tiene fuentes. En mi opinión, lo mejor es revertir su edición y establecer el consenso sobre las fuentes presentadas. Espero saber de usted pronto sobre ese asunto. Saludos cordiales. Asdisis ( discusión ) 14:29, 31 de mayo de 2015 (UTC) [ responder ]

Alerta

Este mensaje contiene información importante sobre una situación administrativa en Wikipedia. No implica ninguna mala conducta en relación con tus propias contribuciones hasta la fecha.

Por favor lea atentamente esta información:

El Comité de Arbitraje ha autorizado la aplicación de sanciones discrecionales a las páginas relacionadas con los Balcanes , tema que usted ha editado. La decisión del Comité se encuentra aquí .

Las sanciones discrecionales son un sistema de regulación de conducta diseñado para minimizar las interrupciones en temas controvertidos. Esto significa que los administradores no involucrados pueden imponer sanciones por ediciones relacionadas con el tema que no se adhieran al propósito de Wikipedia , nuestros estándares de conducta o políticas relevantes . Los administradores pueden imponer sanciones como restricciones de edición , prohibiciones o bloqueos . Este mensaje es para notificarle que se autorizan sanciones para el tema que está editando. Antes de continuar editando este tema, familiarícese con el sistema de sanciones discrecionales. No dude en ponerse en contacto conmigo o con otro editor si tiene alguna pregunta.

- Sr. X 14:31 5 jun 2015 (UTC) [ responder ]

Editor disruptivo

Hola KIENGIR , respondo a este comentario tuyo. Ese usuario ha sido disruptivo durante mucho tiempo. Hizo un informe en mi contra y agradecería que pudieras compartir esta opinión aquí. Puedes ver que he realizado algunas investigaciones y resulta que este usuario es un títere de otro usuario que demostró el mismo comportamiento. Detoner ( discusión ) 15:38 4 jul 2015 (UTC) [ responder ]

Gracias por el apoyo, es interesante ver cómo los usuarios que encuentran polémico el artículo sobre la unión de Croacia con Hungría o similares nunca son de Hungría. Tzowu ( discusión ) 16:38 4 jul 2015 (UTC) [ responder ]

Imperio austriaco

Parece que has estado haciendo campaña, es decir, dejando mensajes en una selección parcial de páginas de discusión de usuarios para notificarles sobre una decisión, debate o votación en curso en la comunidad. Aunque se permiten los avisos amistosos , deben ser limitados y no partidistas en su distribución y deben reflejar un punto de vista neutral . No publiques avisos que se publiquen de forma indiscriminada , que defiendan un cierto punto de vista o lado de un debate, o que se envíen de forma selectiva sólo a aquellos que se cree que tienen la misma opinión que tú. Recuerda respetar el principio de Wikipedia de creación de consenso permitiendo que las decisiones reflejen la opinión predominante entre la comunidad en general. Gracias. Gerard von Hebel ( discusión ) 12:19, 14 de diciembre de 2015 (UTC) [ responder ]

Hebel, estás exagerando. Dado que estas personas son expertos reconocidos sobre Hungría y wikipedistas muy antiguos y experimentados, es una acción natural si simplemente planeas reescribir la historia. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:26 14 dic 2015 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Dejaste un mensaje en mi página de discusión. No estoy seguro de lo que quieres. He leído por encima el muro de texto que contiene un debate. No conozco esta historia. Solo puedo lanzar una moneda al aire para ver quién tiene razón. Parece que están discutiendo bastante bien sobre un punto, pero deben estar de acuerdo exactamente sobre cuál es ese punto. Si es "¿Existía legalmente el país A en 18?", entonces se puede comprobar y discutir al respecto. Tal como está, parece que estás dando vueltas por ahí. No miraré esta página, así que debes dejar un mensaje (si lo hay) en mi página de discusión. Victuallers ( discusión ) 17:32, 22 de diciembre de 2015 (UTC) [ responder ]

Hungría 1526-1857

Usuario:KIENGIR . Por favor, espere a ver qué tiene que decir Fakirbakir. Gerard von Hebel ( discusión ) 01:05 15 dic 2015 (UTC) [ responder ]

Alig van idom, probalok az unnepek alatt idot szanni a temara. Boldog Bekes Karacsonyt! Fakirbakir ( discusión ) 13:57, 23 de diciembre de 2015 (UTC) [ respuesta ]

Compromiso austrohúngaro

Usuario:KIENGIR , el texto que reincorporas aquí fue, como te han dicho repetidamente, eliminado por consenso Y WP:DENY le niega su reincorporación porque fue introducido por un usuario bloqueado. En caso de que no lo entiendas, acuerdo entre yo + Usuario: 82.119.98.162 vs. el usuario bloqueado = consenso. No involucres este artículo en nuestra disputa o haré un nuevo informe ANI. Gerard von Hebel ( discusión ) 02:22 24 dic 2015 (UTC) [ responder ]

Como te dije, no vi ningún consenso, y si entiendo bien, ¿quieres decir que la mayoría decide sobre el consenso o qué? (2:1) Entonces también podría decir con respecto a los otros dos artículos que Usuario: Fakirbakir + Yo vs. Hebel es 2-1... ¿cómo podría un editor y una dirección IP decidir sobre tal "consenso"? Entonces mejor llévalo a la ANI ya que el consenso que no encuentro también es inaceptable, ya que está obstaculizando el verdadero contenido de las fuentes y eliminando faraones muy importantes, ¡parece un claro vandalismo! Además, la historia no comienza con títeres, ya que antes fue puesta originalmente por no títeres, así que ten cuidado con la explicación. Y lo más importante es que no restablecí nada anterior, ya que agregué el faraón con contenido modificado. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 01:25 25 dic 2015 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Artículos relacionados con el Imperio de Austria

Usuario:KIENGIR . Tal vez deberíamos alejarnos de parte del lenguaje en el que estamos atrapados. Es solo una idea. No hay nada escrito en piedra ni definitivo todavía, solo un intento de hacer un texto que pueda funcionar:

"En 1804, el emperador del Sacro Imperio Romano Germánico Francisco II, que también era gobernante de las tierras dinásticas de la dinastía de los Habsburgo dentro y fuera del Sacro Imperio Romano Germánico, fundó el Imperio de Austria, en el que estaban incluidas todas sus tierras dinásticas. Lo hizo porque previó el fin del Sacro Imperio Romano Germánico o la eventual ascensión al trono como emperador del Sacro Imperio Romano Germánico de Napoleón, que ese mismo año había adoptado el título de emperador de los franceses. Para salvaguardar el estatus imperial de su dinastía, adoptó el título hereditario adicional de emperador de Austria. Al hacerlo, creó una estructura general formal para la monarquía de los Habsburgo, que había funcionado como una monarquía compuesta durante unos trescientos años antes. Aparte de estar ahora incluidos en un nuevo "Kaiserthum", el funcionamiento de la estructura general y el estatus de sus tierras componentes al principio se mantuvieron prácticamente iguales a los de la monarquía compuesta que existía antes de 1804. Esto quedó especialmente demostrado por el estatus del Reino de Hungría, cuyos asuntos siguieron siendo administrados por "El Imperio Alemán tenía sus propias instituciones (el Rey y la Dieta) tal como las había tenido bajo la monarquía compuesta, en la que siempre se las había considerado un reino separado. En la nueva situación, por lo tanto, no había instituciones imperiales involucradas en su gobierno interno". Gerard von Hebel ( discusión ) 21:25 27 dic 2015 (UTC) [ responder ]

Creo que primero se debe resolver el artículo del Reino de Hungría (1526-1867), ya que es el más fácil porque tiene un contenido menos debatido. Responderé en tu página.( KIENGIR (discusión) 02:12 28 dic 2015 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Aviso de discusión en el tablón de anuncios de Warring Edit

Hola. Te enviamos este mensaje para informarte que actualmente hay una discusión que te involucra en Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de administradores/Guerra de ediciones con respecto a una posible violación de la política de Wikipedia sobre guerra de ediciones . Gracias.

Hola KIENGIR . Yo también escribí algo sobre el informe anterior. Quizá quieras leerlo. Francamente, tu modus operandi me confunde. Tenemos un acuerdo sobre el artículo de Hungría, que podría ser una buena base para un acuerdo también sobre el artículo del Imperio austríaco , para el cual ya hice una propuesta. También te recomiendo que la tengas en cuenta. ¿Por qué esta cuestión (francamente bastante problemática) del otro artículo, especialmente ahora en este punto? ¿Una violación de la 1RR? ¿En qué estabas pensando? Gerard von Hebel ( discusión ) 14:57 3 enero 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

No fue una violación voluntaria de la 1RR, revisé la hora dos veces antes, pero parece que debido a la confusión de la zona horaria podría suceder, ningún Administrador respondió a mi pregunta sobre esto, incluso después de la edición, la hora no tenía menos de 24 horas, pero después de ver que se registró 10 minutos antes. Te dije antes mi punto de que al menos si no tocamos dos artículos, este debería dejarse como está hasta un nuevo consenso, las páginas pueden tener contenido similar pero no son idénticas y no veo ningún contenido problemático. No deberías haber intervenido y dejar el caso - este 1RR - para resolver solo con 123Steller y los Administradores. Estoy seguro de que debido a tu texto me bloquearon, ¡que nuevamente no fue tan preciso como debería haber sido! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 16:16 5 enero 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Editar en guerraCompromiso austrohúngaro de 1867

Se te ha bloqueado para que no puedas editar durante un período de 48 horas debido a una guerra de ediciones . Una vez que el bloqueo haya expirado, puedes hacer contribuciones útiles . Si crees que hay buenas razones por las que deberías ser desbloqueado, puedes apelar este bloqueo leyendo primero la guía para apelar bloqueos y luego agregando el siguiente texto al final de tu página de discusión: .{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}

Durante una disputa, primero debe intentar debatir los cambios controvertidos y buscar un consenso . Si eso no da resultado, se le recomienda que busque una solución de disputa y, en algunos casos, puede ser adecuado solicitar la protección de la página .

El informe completo se encuentra en esta edición de Warring complaint (enlace permanente). También le advierto sobre las sanciones discrecionales según WP:ARBEE (ver más abajo). EdJohnston ( discusión ) 16:02 3 enero 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Los artículos sobre Austria-Hungría están cubiertos por sanciones discrecionales en virtud deWP:ARBEE

Este mensaje contiene información importante sobre una situación administrativa en Wikipedia. No implica ninguna mala conducta en relación con tus propias contribuciones hasta la fecha.

Por favor lea atentamente esta información:

El Comité de Arbitraje ha autorizado la aplicación de sanciones discrecionales a las páginas relacionadas con un tema que usted ha editado. La decisión del Comité se encuentra aquí .

Las sanciones discrecionales son un sistema de regulación de conducta diseñado para minimizar las interrupciones en temas controvertidos. Esto significa que los administradores no involucrados pueden imponer sanciones por ediciones relacionadas con el tema que no se adhieran al propósito de Wikipedia , nuestros estándares de conducta o políticas relevantes . Los administradores pueden imponer sanciones como restricciones de edición , prohibiciones o bloqueos . Este mensaje es para notificarle que se autorizan sanciones para el tema que está editando. Antes de continuar editando este tema, familiarícese con el sistema de sanciones discrecionales. No dude en ponerse en contacto conmigo o con otro editor si tiene alguna pregunta.

EdJohnston ( discusión ) 16:05 3 ene 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

La solicitud de desbloqueo de este usuario ha sido revisada por un administrador , quien la rechazó. Otros administradores también pueden revisar este bloqueo, pero no deben anular la decisión sin una buena razón (consulte la política de bloqueo ).

KIENGIR (registro de bloques • bloques activos • bloques globales • contribuciones • contribuciones eliminadas • registro de filtros • registro de creaciones • cambiar configuración de bloques • desbloquear • checkuser (registro) )

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Motivo de la solicitud :

Hola a todos, esta es la advertencia en la página de discusión del artículo correspondiente: No debes hacer más de una reversión cada 24 horas a este artículo y estás sujeto a sanciones discrecionales mientras editas esta página. -> Pensé que no hice más de una reversión en 24 horas, ya que revisé cuidadosamente la hora, pero veo que mi última acción fue realizada a las 7:56 del 3 de enero. Eso es 10 minutos antes de las 24 horas según la última edición... aunque revisé el reloj y recuerdo las 08:47 CET.... solo por curiosidad, en la Wikipedia en inglés siempre se registra la hora actual del editor, ¿o GMT? ¡Gracias por la respuesta! KIENGIR (discusión) 08:24 4 ene 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Motivo del rechazo :

No se han proporcionado motivos para desbloquear. Mirar el reloj para continuar con la guerra de edición sin violar una restricción de reversión sigue siendo una guerra de edición, y por eso estás bloqueado. --jpgordon ^{::==( o )} 15:07, 4 de enero de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

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Si desea realizar más solicitudes de desbloqueo, lea primero la guía para apelar bloqueos y luego vuelva a utilizar la plantilla {{ unblock }} . Si realiza demasiadas solicitudes de desbloqueo poco convincentes o disruptivas, es posible que no pueda editar esta página hasta que su bloqueo haya expirado. No elimine esta revisión de desbloqueo mientras esté bloqueado.

Hola KIENGIR. Parece que has estado luchando constantemente para añadir este material entre el 22 de diciembre y el 3 de enero. En un momento dado, el usuario:KrakatoaKatie puso el artículo bajo protección total para detener la guerra. Cuando la protección expiró, tú te pusiste a ello de nuevo. En tus resúmenes de edición, has estado diciendo a otras personas que sigan la resolución de disputas, mientras tú sigues restaurando tu material una y otra vez. EdJohnston ( discusión ) 14:41 4 ene 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

KIENGIR, te estás convirtiendo rápidamente en la definición de un editor tendencioso . Katie ^talk 15:02, 4 de enero de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

La solicitud de desbloqueo de este usuario ha sido revisada por un administrador , quien la rechazó. Otros administradores también pueden revisar este bloqueo, pero no deben anular la decisión sin una buena razón (consulte la política de bloqueo ).

KIENGIR (registro de bloques • bloques activos • bloques globales • contribuciones • contribuciones eliminadas • registro de filtros • registro de creaciones • cambiar configuración de bloques • desbloquear • checkuser (registro) )

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Motivo de la solicitud :

--jpgordon , Katie , EdJohnstonNo tengo intención de pedir más solicitudes de desbloqueo hasta que caduque, pero por favor, todos ustedes explíquenme cuidadosamente por qué los otros usuarios que continuamente revirtieron mi edición no fueron sancionados, aunque en esta página agregué un contenido nuevo y modificado, no revertí principalmente la edición de nadie, y si un usuario no está de acuerdo con algo, debe discutirlo hasta que se resuelva, como yo y otros seguimos en las otras páginas en disputa en las que ya se resolvió una. Sí, según el reloj oficial rompí una regla sin querer, lo lamento mucho, pero todos ustedes tienen que ver mi buena fe, algunos otros editores no probaron y no parecen mantener el juego limpio. Hablan continuamente sobre un consenso que todavía no veo y, de todos modos, el contenido de los tres artículos no es idéntico, por lo que ese argumento falso de "reinstauraría algo que ya acordé eliminar" no es cierto y es un pequeño desliz... Si revisan cuidadosamente las páginas de discusión, verán claramente quién estaba provocando a quién y quién es profesional en el tema. Veo una doble moral por parte de otros editores que incluso se sienten molestos por mi existencia. Me acusaron de muchas cosas que nunca se demostraron que fueran ciertas, pero tienen el derecho de revertir o eliminar cualquier cosa que no esté autorizada y ponen información no válida/distorsionada para los administradores, ahorrando los detalles importantes, ¡y me identifican como un problema! Katie, acabo de leer lo que significa en términos de Wikipedia "usuario tendencioso", no estoy de acuerdo con los detalles que me representan, ya que siempre he tenido un punto de vista neutral y la lucha por tener contenido válido, factual e impecable en Wikipedia puede realmente llamarse "tendenciosa" como la palabra significa. El hecho de que toque temas sensibles no es intencional, pero es difícil de soportar si hay contenido no válido y algunos grupos no buscan una resolución profesional, sino que están ansiosos por hacer acusaciones. Así que tengo que volver a señalar que la regla es mantener la página intacta hasta la resolución, y quería ver y tener el derecho de saber si las otras partes están respetando esto como lo hicimos en los otros dos artículos, pero aún así, bajo resolución, agregaron nuevos materiales al artículo. No fui yo quien inició las reversiones en la página correspondiente, por lo tanto, se debe juzgar a quienes revirtieron continuamente mi adición, ¡antes de buscar primero el consenso de resolución! El hecho de que por error se haya roto la 1RR, ahora es un desafortunado casus belli que me pone al frente, pero mientras tanto, la causa raíz se olvida. Lo siento mucho, ¡aunque revisé dos veces el reloj! Cuando Katie protegió la página por primera vez, dijo que el estado actual congelado no tiene conexión con qué versión debe dejarse hasta la resolución de la disputa, por eso mi intención era tener esa versión que debería ser válida, como siempre está en Wikipedia. Solo ese era mi objetivo, y no continuar la guerra de ediciones, esto fue continuado por algunas direcciones IP, usuarios de Hebel y 123Steller.Por favor, revise con más cuidado en el futuro. ¡Gracias!KIENGIR (discusión) 23:47, ayer (UTC+1)

Motivo del rechazo :

No se ha dado ninguna razón para desbloquear esta solicitud. Vanjagenije (discusión) 00:02 5 ene 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

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Si desea realizar más solicitudes de desbloqueo, lea primero la guía para apelar bloqueos y luego vuelva a utilizar la plantilla {{ unblock }} . Si realiza demasiadas solicitudes de desbloqueo poco convincentes o disruptivas, es posible que no pueda editar esta página hasta que su bloqueo haya expirado. No elimine esta revisión de desbloqueo mientras esté bloqueado.

• KIENGIR, tu bloqueo expirará pronto, pero si continúas con el comportamiento que llevó a este bloqueo, es posible que te bloqueen nuevamente. Por lo tanto, te recomiendo encarecidamente que sigas el proceso de WP:BRD y que no hagas una guerra de ediciones. Hablas repetidamente sobre el reloj, pero debes entender que el reloj es irrelevante. La política de WP:EW es clara al respecto: cualquier apariencia de jugar con el sistema al revertir una cuarta vez (o segunda vez en este caso) justo fuera del intervalo de 24 horas también puede considerarse una guerra de ediciones . Vanjagenije (discusión) 00:02 5 ene 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Usuario:KIENGIR , has publicado un comentario adicional en el informe cerrado en WP:AN3 . No te sirve de nada continuar con tus quejas sobre la conducta de los demás. No solo has infringido la política de guerra de ediciones, sino que pareces estar impulsando un WP:POV . Esto te da poca credibilidad si sigues pidiendo ayuda a los administradores. Lo mejor para ti es entablar negociaciones en la página de discusión del artículo. Si no puedes persuadir a los demás, deberías dejarlo pasar. Gracias, EdJohnston ( discusión ) 19:00, 5 enero 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Estimado EdJohnston ,

Si otro usuario se involucró sin invitación alguna para acusarme y presentar las cosas de una manera muy parcial y afirmó cosas que no eran factuales, creo que tengo derecho a reaccionar y defenderme. Con respecto a la política de edición, reconocí mi error, sin embargo, la inacción de los demás ni siquiera se tomó en consideración. No impongo ningún WP:POV y aquellos que se toman el tiempo y revisan cuidadosamente los acontecimientos cronológicos en las tres páginas, además de leer el contenido de las páginas de discusión, notarán a qué me he referido. Si alguien tiene credibilidad aquí, soy yo, ya que apoyo la factualidad contra aquellos que tienden a ocultar algunas cosas encontrando cualquier razón para distraer al lector o a los administradores. No hay un apoyo más importante para esto que la historia de las páginas y el contenido de las páginas de discusión. Pónganme a prueba en cualquier momento, algunos editores más experimentados pueden comprometer muy fácilmente a cualquier editor de buena fe con menos experiencia, el diablo siempre está en los detalles. Sin embargo, he señalado con claridad y precisión cómo otros editores están actuando de forma inapropiada, pero aun así me presentan/tratan como un chico malo. Este es mi único problema, una especie de doble medida. Saludos( KIENGIR (discusión) 06:40 7 ene 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Clarificación

En cuanto a su texto sobre mí: "no quiere que repita cosas", quiero dejar claro que no lo acuso de repetir nada . Me refería al texto propuesto, donde Hungría se describe como un reino, un país y un reino (separado) en la misma frase, lo que me pareció un poco redundante. Si la nueva versión de Hebel no cambia esta parte, no insistiré en ello. Déjelo como quiera (sin tocar el "país") si es importante para usted.

No he leído todos los largos debates sobre este tema y no me considero un especialista tanto como Hebel. Si llega a un consenso con él, no plantearé ninguna objeción.

Gracias por la paciencia para llegar a un acuerdo. ¡Paz! 123Steller ( discusión ) 22:38 12 ene 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Transilvania

Pido disculpas por los incidentes en los artículos sobre el Principado de Transilvania, no debería haberme involucrado en la guerra de ediciones.

Por cierto, encontré este viejo mapa de Transilvania [2] donde, además de los condados sajones y húngaros, también hay regiones de Valaquia y Moldavia. ¿Qué sabes sobre ellas? ¿Cuál era su estatus? 123Steller ( discusión ) 07:10 8 mar 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Vale, acepto la oferta de paz. He revisado el mapa con atención. Los mapas antiguos, creados en la Edad Media, tienen muchas veces distorsiones con respecto a los mapas actuales o a las ubicaciones geográficas correctas. Después de una revisión más larga, además de conocer las fronteras exactas y la extensión territorial del Principado de Transilvania, verifiqué que todo lo que se muestra en el mapa es parte de la Cuenca de los Cárpatos, no sobrepasa las fronteras históricas ni el Reino clásico de Hungría o el Principado de Transilvania. Por lo tanto, no contiene regiones históricas de Valaquia o Moldavia (= territorio o región del Principado de Valaquia o Principado de Moldavia). Creo que el autor escribió y atestiguó sobre la población de la época actual, ya que está escrito exactamente en la frontera sur de Transilvania, cerca del área de Hátszeg, que es un lugar bien conocido donde los valacos se asentaron en tiempos antiguos, por lo que su población creció allí durante siglos. Lo mismo pienso sobre la denominación "Moldavia", ya que en esas áreas los reyes húngaros otorgaron anteriormente derechos feudales a cambio de la lealtad de los terratenientes valacos/moldavos, y más de ellos, con su pueblo valaco establecido, se expandieron más tarde también al territorio del Principado de Moldavia. Así que creo que, de manera similar a las denominaciones sajonas y húngaras, en latín szekler, más allá de las fronteras y condados oficiales, obtenemos una imagen de la composición étnica cercana de las regiones y la extensión histórica y tradicional de las regiones, ya sean oficiales o no oficiales, es decir, ciudades o áreas tradicionalmente sajonas, aunque esto no excluye la presencia de otras etnias.

Conclusión breve: las regiones "valaca" y "moldava" no tenían ningún estatus (oficial), son sólo una designación no oficial del autor del mapa sobre la presencia étnica (ahora no intervengo en el debate sobre la etnicidad moldava - el autor - en tiempos contemporáneos - se refiere al estado de origen de esta manera).( KIENGIR (discusión) 22:51 8 mar 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Subótica

Subotica es una ciudad de Serbia, y el único idioma oficial es el serbio. Por lo tanto, Szabadka no es el nombre oficial de la ciudad. ¿Qué parte de esta simple lógica no entiendes? Sideshow Bob 07:34, 11 de marzo de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Parece que no has entendido bien. EL NOMBRE OFICIAL CONTEMPORÁNEO DE LA CIUDAD ES SZABADKA. ¿Qué parte de esta simple lógica no entiendes? ¡Saludos! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 00:11 12 mar 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Subotica está en Serbia, donde el idioma oficial es el serbio. ¿Problema? Además, las mayúsculas no hacen que tu argumento sea menos estúpido. Sideshow Bob 07:08, 14 de marzo de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Ya veo, tu problema es con el idioma inglés. No entiendes lo que significa CONTEMPORÁNEO. Consulta un vocabulario o habla con un profesor de inglés, ¡quizás la tercera vez no vuelvas a hacer el ridículo! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:38 14 mar 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Hola, inteligente y nada ridículo, supereditor. Trata de aprender la diferencia entre la palabra "contemporáneo" utilizada como sustantivo y como adjetivo, si sabes lo que significan, e intenta comprender la diferencia. Además, por favor, no me contactes más, ya que no me importan tus rabietas pasivo-agresivas ni este problema. Adiós. Sideshow Bob 07:55, 15 de marzo de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Tu lección de gramática es lo que tenías que aprender, ya que entonces no harías la edición que hiciste, donde es OBVIO lo que significa contemporáneo, al lado del nombre oficial ACTUAL :) El resto es charla basura inútil. Si no respondes más, no pienso continuar esta discusión. ¡Hasta luego!( KIENGIR (discusión) 00:46 16 mar 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

(Stalker de la página de discusión, sí, lo admito) Hola KIENGIR, ha habido un malentendido entre ustedes dos. Tienes razón, y Sideshow Bob se equivoca con el tono que utilizó, pero su error de juicio no es nada raro. Cuando vi esa mesa por primera vez, tuve el mismo primer pensamiento que él, porque en muchos idiomas el término contemporáneo se referiría a la actualidad. FkpCascais ( discusión ) 03:43 16 mar 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Ok, paz.( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:15 16 mar 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Italia, Hungría y Trianon

Hola Usuario:KIENGIR . Lamento no haber podido encontrar mucha información sobre la pregunta que me hiciste anteriormente, la investigaré en las próximas semanas. Pero tengo una pregunta sobre esta edición que hiciste. ¿Qué territorios obtuvo el Reino de Italia de Hungría en el Tratado de Trianon? No pudo haber sido Fiume (Rijeka) porque estaba asignado a Yugoslavia en ese momento (aunque finalmente Italia lo anexó). ¿Y qué pasa con Polonia? Me parece recordar que anexaron algunos territorios al norte de los Cárpatos, pero creo que eso fue solo en 1939. Gerard von Hebel ( discusión ) 00:06 8 jun 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Hola Gerard von Hebel ,

Espero que descubras la verdad sobre mi última pregunta, lo espero con ansias. Empecemos por Polonia. Te equivocas, Polonia nunca se anexionó ningún territorio de Hungría después, ¿quizás lo confundes con la anexión de Teschen en 1939 de Checoslovaquia? Polonia ganó un territorio de 589 km² de los condados de Szepes y Árva. En cuanto a Fiume, como puedes ver también en el mapa adjunto, también está indicado en los mapas tradicionales o de uso común donde se demuestra las pérdidas de Hungría. Dado que desde el principio el status quo fue disputado entre Italia, el Reino de SHS y algunos otros, esto se refiere mejor al final, ya que fue dividido entre ellos, por lo que Italia obtuvo una parte. Si lo cree, puede agregar "finalmente", ya que la sección está destinada a las pérdidas de los territorios y su status quo final (periodo de entreguerras), no necesariamente cuando se dejó la pluma de los documentos firmados el 4 de junio de 1920.... considere también que la legislación, promulgación y codificación del tratado se terminó internacionalmente recién el 26 de julio de 1921.... de manera similar a como se promulgaron los tratados de cierre de la Primera Guerra Mundial en 1947.... así que todo esto significó el status quo final, legal e internacionalmente reconocido, como el resultado final de la disolución del territorio de Hungría.( KIENGIR (discusión) 00:29 8 jun 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Vale, gracias. En lo que respecta a Polonia, estaba pensando en los condados de Szepes y Árva, pero de alguna manera pensé que también jugaron un papel en el acuerdo de Munich. Me parece recordar que hubo una ocupación de Fiume por parte de los italianos, que se la arrebataron a Yugoslavia y establecieron allí una especie de "Estado libre" antes de que Mussolini la anexara. No hay problema en referirse a la situación final como tal, pero me preguntaba si es posible que ya se hubiera añadido algún territorio allí a Italia en 1920/21. Ah, y deberías cambiar "littlier" por "más pequeño". Littlier no es realmente una palabra inglesa, aunque incluso los holandeses la transcribirían como tal. Gerard von Hebel ( discusión ) 00:41 8 jun 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Ok( KIENGIR (discusión) 00:44 8 jun 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Notificación de enlace de desambiguación para el 7 de julio

Hola. Gracias por tus recientes ediciones. Wikipedia agradece tu ayuda. Sin embargo, notamos que cuando editaste László Bárdossy , agregaste un enlace que apunta a la página de desambiguación Károly Bartha . Estos enlaces casi siempre son involuntarios, ya que una página de desambiguación es simplemente una lista de títulos de artículos del tipo "¿Quiso decir…?". Lee las Preguntas frecuentes  • Únete a nosotros en el WikiProject DPL .

Está bien eliminar este mensaje. Además, para dejar de recibir estos mensajes, siga estas instrucciones de cancelación de suscripción . Gracias, DPL bot ( discusión ) 09:56, 7 de julio de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

ANI

Actualmente hay una discusión en Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de administradores/Incidencias sobre un problema en el que usted puede haber estado involucrado. Gracias. Biruitorul ^Talk 21:23, 11 de julio de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Lamento mucho que en lugar de una discusión colaborativa hayas introducido un ataque propagandístico personal contra mí. Eso va en contra de la buena fe y de los esfuerzos colaborativos para mejorar los artículos. Ya no vivimos en el régimen de Ceaucescu, ¡despertad! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:26 11 jul 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Cuestiones relacionadas con la edición del artículo sobre la rivalidad futbolística entre Hungría y Rumanía

Creo que es un poco irónico que seas tú quien me está enseñando a ser imparcial. Por ejemplo, leí el artículo del Dailymail que citaste y noté que una gran parte de la sección de Incidentes que editaste en el artículo de Wiki era simplemente una copia y pegada de allí. Pero una cosa que noté con respecto a ese artículo del Dailymail es que el único incidente que no te molestaste en copiar y pegar en la sección de Incidentes en el artículo de Wiki fue sobre los fanáticos húngaros que incendiaron varios asientos. Por supuesto, lo puse en la sección de Incidentes con una cita, pero debo preguntar por qué no te molestaste en ponerlo allí en primer lugar. Es porque realmente no quieres que la gente que lee sepa la verdad sobre los fanáticos húngaros, por eso. Los fanáticos húngaros son conocidos en el mundo del fútbol por su comportamiento extremadamente violento y en general desagradable, sin embargo, cuando descubrí ese artículo de Wiki prácticamente no había información sobre los incidentes causados ​​por ellos en la sección de Incidentes. Solo has incluido los incidentes relacionados con los partidos en el Arena Nationala (Rumania) y, aun así, no te has molestado en informar específicamente de los incidentes cometidos allí por los húngaros. Incluso has dicho que en Hungría nunca se abuchea el himno rumano, pero cada vez que veía a mi equipo jugar allí solo oía abucheos de los aficionados húngaros. Has borrado esa información del artículo continuamente hasta que he añadido algunas citas para confirmar que lo que decía era cierto. ¿Te avergüenza el comportamiento de tus compañeros, por eso intentas negarlo y ocultarlo con tanta desesperación? Además, no he eliminado esa sección sobre los aficionados rumanos golpeándose entre sí necesariamente porque quisiera ocultarla, sino porque estaba mal escrita. Después de que la volviste a añadir y añadiste una cita más, he corregido la redacción y la he dejado ahí. Además, dices que trabajas con el personal de Wikipedia, pero cuando eché un vistazo a tu página de discusión vi que te banearon varias veces por tus ediciones de artículos sobre Hungría, y que has adquirido el hábito de editar muchos artículos sobre Rumania y Hungría, dándoles una postura más positiva sobre Hungría que sobre Rumania. Te digo que deberías dejar de permitir que tu orgullo nacional se interponga en la edición de Wikipedia porque estos artículos están hechos para que los lea el resto del mundo y tu sesgo húngaro es muy injusto en este asunto. Si así es como se ven los artículos sobre Hungría y Rumania en la Wikipedia en inglés debido a las ediciones hechas por húngaros, entonces solo puedo imaginar qué tipo de mentiras sobre los rumanos hay en la Wikipedia húngara. No me molestaré en editar ninguno de esos artículos, como el de la guerra húngaro-rumana, porque es demasiado esfuerzo. Todo lo que puedo hacer es alentar a los usuarios extranjeros a que utilicen otras fuentes más creíbles sobre la historia húngaro-rumana porque los artículos aquí están escritos desde puntos de vista húngaros. También te animaré a que eches un vistazo a este cortometraje de 30 minutos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DauT5r34Gl4 De todos modos, doy por terminado mi caso. La sección de Incidentes ahora se ve bien y justa después de mis ediciones, así que mi misión está completa, pero todo este desastre que tuvimos solo mostrará al mundo cómo los húngaros niegan su comportamiento desagradable al mundo al tratar de eliminarlo de Wikipedia, y cuán desesperados están los húngaros por tener una imagen positiva en el mundo, incluso si eso significa ocultar la verdad aquí. Es muy ridículo, debo decir. --Scheianu (hablar ) 23:20 14 jul 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Scheianu,

- No hice ninguna edición extensa en el artículo correspondiente menos de lo que hiciste tú.

- Tuve que advertirte porque violaste esas reglas que cité, además no eras neutral sino muy parcial, como demostraste también tu gran aversión por los húngaros.

- En este artículo lo que se pone "en primer lugar" no tiene relevancia real, mejor orden cronológico.

- Mierda, si hubiera querido ocultar algo a los fans húngaros habría hecho desaparecer la mitad del contenido que cita extensamente todo sobre los húngaros, pero menos los incidentes sobre el otro lado.

- En Arena Nationala el primer incidente importante fue en el sector rumano donde rumanos golpearon a rumanos, después la seguridad rumana comenzó a golpear a estos grupos rumanos, incluidos niños, periodistas, etc., no tenía ninguna conexión con los fanáticos húngaros.

- Entonces tienes un gran problema de objetividad, ya que en las retransmisiones se oye claramente el himno nacional rumano y sólo en muy pocas ocasiones se oye algo molesto, no la mayoría de los aficionados húngaros, sino muy raramente algunos grupitos. En Bucarest, todo el mundo silba y abuchea horriblemente, así que sigues con tu modus operandi de interrumpir el artículo para mantener esa mentira de que los húngaros en general "abuchean" el himno y mientras tanto callas sobre el continuo y persistente comportamiento horrible en Bucarest, es una de las mayores vergüenzas de todos los tiempos para ti, ¡y es ridículo que intentes librarte de esto!

- Dejé esa frase citada porque si revisamos todos los partidos, el comportamiento de los aficionados húngaros fue el más evidente, aunque todavía se escucha claramente el himno, mi objetividad y buen corazón fueron la razón, aunque no lo merecías. Si mi cita estaba mal escrita, ¿por qué no la reescribiste de inmediato? :) Tal vez te concentraste en tu odio hacia Hungría...

-No me avergüenzo de nada, tú sí que debes avergonzarte de tu comportamiento.

- NO me banearon "varias veces", una vez fue por error porque no miré el reloj y mi acción violó un límite de tiempo. Nunca tomé "ninguna postura positiva" a favor de Hungría, mis ediciones aumentaron la objetividad, además corregí errores graves e infantiles, imprecisiones, etc., aumentando así la confiabilidad y credibilidad de las páginas. De todos modos, colaboro con el personal de Wikipedia si surge algún problema.

- Has vuelto a mezclar tu persona conmigo, en Wikipedia hay wikipedistas, no me influye ninguna nacionalidad, ningún orgullo nacional, pero has demostrado ante la comunidad de Wikipedia que te desagradan profundamente los húngaros, además de que has querido sesgar el artículo sobre los himnos nacionales, lo que puede ser VERIFICADO por todo el mundo ya que TODOS LOS PARTIDOS ESTÁN GRABADOS. Punto.

- Vuelve a tener mala fe, porque los wikipedistas húngaros en su mayoría tienen dificultades para presentar de manera objetiva el gran desequilibrio que hay en algunos artículos; últimamente, la mayoría de los wikipedistas rumanos son justos la mayor parte del tiempo y también están interesados ​​en buenos artículos, no en artículos de propaganda.

- El video de YouTube lo sé, tiene una fuerte propaganda y sesgo hacia los hechos, silencia muchas otras distracciones que cualquier documental objetivo y profesional debería contener.

- No ocultamos ninguna verdad, lo risible es que ahora queréis actuar de forma objetiva, pero además con vuestras continuas declaraciones húngaras acusadoras y prejuiciosas no hacéis más que demostrar lo contrario de lo que queréis que parezca.

- Como ya lo has demostrado en tu última edición, has vuelto a publicar información sobre los húngaros, pero nada que fuera negativo sobre los rumanos. Es tu forma de decir la "verdad", la "objetividad", etc. Conocemos tu tipo de persona, generalmente nos encontramos con esto en algunos principiantes (el vídeo de YouTube que querías utilizar como patrón de énfasis de tus puntos de vista, afirmaciones, opiniones sobre los húngaros y con esto querías justificar tu actitud negativa sobre los húngaros hoy, además de en relación con un evento deportivo que no tiene relación con el vídeo. Amateur.)

Eso es todo por ahora.( KIENGIR (discusión) 19:57 15 jul 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Veo que tienes antecedentes en cuanto a tu actitud contra los rumanos. Skyhighway ( discusión ) 19:06 27 sep 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Es natural que si encuentro imprecisiones, afirmaciones inapropiadas o cualquier otra cosa, defiendo la precisión y la objetividad, pero no tengo ninguna actitud hacia los rumanos ni hacia nadie más, no se basa en la nacionalidad ni nada de eso. Antes de hacer afirmaciones repentinas, deberías estudiar completamente el tema, ya que de todos modos tienes ediciones repentinas y sin fundamento. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 22:30 27 sep 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Notificación de enlace de desambiguación para el 6 de agosto

Hola. Gracias por tus recientes ediciones. Wikipedia agradece tu ayuda. Sin embargo, notamos que cuando editaste Revolt of Horea, Cloșca and Crișan , agregaste un enlace que apunta a la página de desambiguación Deva . Estos enlaces casi siempre son involuntarios, ya que una página de desambiguación es simplemente una lista de títulos de artículos del tipo "¿Quisiste decir…?". Lee las preguntas frecuentes  • Únete a nosotros en el WikiProject DPL .

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Notificación de enlace de desambiguación para el 18 de agosto

Hola. Gracias por tus recientes modificaciones. Wikipedia agradece tu ayuda. Sin embargo, hemos notado que cuando editaste Ip massacre , agregaste un enlace que apunta a la página de desambiguación Ip . Estos enlaces casi siempre son involuntarios, ya que una página de desambiguación es simplemente una lista de títulos de artículos del tipo "¿Quisiste decir…?". Lee las preguntas frecuentes  • Únete a nosotros en el WikiProject de DPL .

Está bien eliminar este mensaje. Además, para dejar de recibir estos mensajes, siga estas instrucciones de cancelación de suscripción . Gracias, DPL bot ( discusión ) 09:26, 18 de agosto de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Agosto de 2016

Tu historial de edición reciente muestra que actualmente estás involucrado en una guerra de ediciones . Para resolver la disputa de contenido, no reviertas ni cambies las ediciones de otros cuando se revierte. En lugar de revertir, utiliza la página de discusión del artículo para trabajar hacia la creación de una versión que represente el consenso entre los editores. La mejor práctica en esta etapa es discutir, no hacer una guerra de ediciones. Consulta BRD para saber cómo se hace esto. Si las discusiones llegan a un punto muerto, puedes publicar una solicitud de ayuda en un tablón de anuncios relevante o buscar una resolución de disputas . En algunos casos, es posible que desees solicitar la protección temporal de la página .

Participar en una guerra de ediciones puede resultar en que se le bloquee la posibilidad de editar , especialmente si viola la regla de las tres reversiones , que establece que un editor no debe realizar más de tres reversiones en una sola página en un período de 24 horas. Deshacer el trabajo de otro editor, ya sea en su totalidad o en parte, ya sea que involucre el mismo material o material diferente cada vez, cuenta como una reversión. También tenga en cuenta que, si bien violar la regla de las tres reversiones a menudo conduce a un bloqueo, aún puede ser bloqueado por guerra de ediciones, incluso si no viola la regla de las tres reversiones , si su comportamiento indica que tiene la intención de continuar revirtiendo repetidamente. Dsch slava ^Δx parlez moi 00:28, 20 de agosto de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Por favor, no ataque a otros editores. Comente sobre el contenido , no sobre los colaboradores. Los ataques personales dañan a la comunidad y disuaden a los usuarios. Por favor, mantenga la calma y tenga esto en cuenta mientras edita. Gracias. Helmut von Moltke ( discusión ) 00:39 20 ago 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Dschslava : Biruitorul inició la guerra de ediciones, ya que durante la construcción del consenso revirtió y editó la segunda vez y, por lo tanto, cumplió con el marco repetidamente . No revertí sus adiciones en lugar de un caso cuando propuse un nuevo consenso y también revertí mis ediciones formadas, a pesar de que revirtió mis ediciones más tiempo. Inicié una discusión con él con más intentos en su página de discusión, se negó a comunicarse y continuó con su actividad. Seguí totalmente el principio WP:BRD, sin embargo, soy consciente de que su advertencia es un mensaje automático.

@ Helmut von Moltke : , por favor muéstrame una prueba de que haya atacado a algún editor, porque no conozco ningún caso así, mientras tanto sufrí continuos ataques personales y solo respondí a difamaciones y acusaciones falsas y planteé una cuestión de conducta inapropiada. Deberías haber advertido a quienes me atacaron. Siento que hay un grave desequilibrio aquí, no te dejes engañar por ningún usuario que ya haya intentado engañar a otros editores o administradores.( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:04 20 ago 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Este resumen de edición constituye una violación de WP:NPA. Helmut von Moltke ( discusión ) 06:04 21 ago 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Helmut von Moltke : , bueno, si consideras que es una violación de WP:NPA que yo haga una pregunta sobre un posible comportamiento del futuro mientras me amenazan y recibo continuos ataques personales, te pregunto de nuevo, ¿no te parece un poco una doble medida que por razones similares no le avises al otro usuario que me atacó con "obsesión" y "agenda revisionista" aunque estos tampoco tienen conexión con el contenido de la edición? ( KIENGIR (discusión) 08:42 21 ago 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Biruitorul también ha sido advertido por ataques personales debido a los incidentes que mencionas. Sin embargo, la percepción de ser atacado por otro editor no es justificación para que te involucres en ataques personales contra nadie. Si quieres debatir la neutralidad de las ediciones de Biruitorul, puedes hacerlo en AN/I bajo la subsección correspondiente. Helmut von Moltke ( discusión ) 16:44 21 ago 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Vale, cuando lo comprobé al principio no vi que yo conocía mis derechos, pero no soy de los que se preocupan por generar incidentes. Por último, no quise justificar nada, simplemente reaccioné ante la posible doble medida.( KIENGIR (discusión) 18:52 21 ago 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Aviso de ANI

Actualmente hay una discusión en Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de administradores/Incidencias sobre un problema en el que usted puede haber estado involucrado. Gracias. Dsch slava ^Δx parlez moi 05:25, 20 de agosto de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Ok, lo comprobaré pronto.( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:05 20 ago 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

"información falsa"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:KIENGIR/Treaty_of_Trianon#/media/File:Magyarorszag_1920.png

¿Entonces, eso te parece información falsa? Una vez más te lo digo, deja de intentar ocultar la verdad de los artículos, la gente necesita verla. Esa información fue realmente muy importante para el artículo porque la historia es la fuente clave de esta rivalidad, por cierto. La agregaré de nuevo, esta vez será mejor que no la borres. — Comentario anterior sin firmar agregado por Scheianu ( discusión • contribuciones ) 23:37, 2 de septiembre de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Scheianu: Estás muy cerca de ser denunciado por ataque personal, te lo advierto de nuevo y esta es mi última advertencia. Pones información falsa, ya que el número de húngaros no era de 1 millón, además pones una emoción incomprensible en el tema - que de todos modos no pertenece aquí, sino a los artículos de historia relevantes - ya que los rumanos no siempre tuvieron una clara mayoría en Transilvania, además la palabra "clara" es discutible si se trata de un poco más del 50% por ciento - de todos modos es gracioso que hayas vinculado un mapa que no respalda tus declaraciones por completo. La gente puede recopilar esta información donde corresponde, pero no en este artículo. Parece que estás trabajando duro para recopilar toda la información negativa sobre los húngaros y no te concentras en la objetividad o el punto de vista no verbal. ¡No la vuelvas a agregar hasta que haya consenso! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 00:00, 3 de septiembre de 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

No estoy tratando de centrarme en la negatividad, solo estoy tratando de agregar la verdad. No deberías ser tú quien hable de objetividad, ya que antes de que yo descubriera y comenzara a editar este artículo, la sección de incidentes solo estaba llena de cosas malas hechas por los rumanos, a pesar de que los húngaros causaban más incidentes. ¿Por qué no había nada sobre incidentes causados ​​por húngaros? Si omito esa información, hará que los rumanos parezcan grandes ladrones malvados, lo cual no es cierto, ese mapa al que hice referencia y muchos otros artículos aquí lo muestran. El número que sé era alrededor de 1.000.000-1.600.000, pero no más que eso. Sí, los rumanos tenían una mayoría de un poco más del 50%, pero los húngaros no estaban ni cerca de eso, ya que también había muchos alemanes. La historia es la causa clave de la rivalidad entre los dos equipos, así que creo que debería ser apropiado que se incluya en este artículo. ¿Por qué no puedes aceptarlo? No tengo por qué estar de acuerdo contigo en ningún consenso, ya que hay muchos artículos aquí en Wikipedia que apoyan lo que escribí. Y si sigues borrándolo, seré yo quien te denuncie. Scheianu ( discusión ) 00:50 3 sep 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Scheianu: ,

Lo siento, tu historial de edición muestra claramente que, en su mayoría, agregas contenido unilateral y hablas sobre la "verdad", pero, por otro lado, no quieres que sea objetivo, sino provocador. Antes de tu aparición, no edité contenido altamente relevante en el artículo, que de todos modos contenía mucha menos información y no unilateral; no tengo ninguna responsabilidad sobre el contenido anterior, sin embargo, ahora el artículo está lleno principalmente de tus agregados, que también se toleran en su mayoría de una manera muy liberal.

"Si omito esa información, los rumanos parecerán grandes ladrones malvados, lo cual no es cierto; el mapa al que hice referencia y muchos otros artículos aquí lo demuestran". -> Esta es solo su opinión personal, su punto de vista frustrado; si hacemos una referencia al Tratado, el lector puede extraer información de allí, y el mapa también está allí.

La cifra era exactamente de 1.600.000, no de 1 millón. El resto que mencionaste no cambia nada de lo que he dicho. La causa clave de la rivalidad ya se mencionó y es el Tratado de Trianon y sus consecuencias. De todos modos, tu redacción era incorrecta en cierto modo porque los húngaros podrían haber estado insatisfechos no necesariamente por la pérdida de territorios, sino por la injusticia de las fronteras, es decir, se podría haber arreglado para que menos húngaros permanecieran fuera de las fronteras y, de todos modos, repito, no pertenece a este artículo, cualquier explicación sería demasiado larga y estaría fuera de alcance.

Ten cuidado, porque tienes que llegar a un consenso conmigo, ¿no conoces las reglas de WP:CONSENSUS? Sin embargo, no he eliminado tu añadido, sino que lo he modificado, y serías ridículo si hicieras un informe ya que no he infringido ninguna regla de Wikipedia, y no olvides que mi informe sobre tu ataque personal sólo depende de mi conocido buen corazón (WP:NPA), así que mejor colabora para no ser sorprendido de forma negativa. ¡Debes comportarte como un wikipedista, sin emociones personales ni sentimientos patrióticos! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 01:09 3 sep 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Natasa Dusev-Janics

No lo sé, nunca había oído hablar de ella. Tzowu ( discusión ) 23:09 14 sep 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Megyek

Itt válaszolok, hogy ne Borsoka vitalapját írjuk tele. Rendben, legyen úgy, de lehet, hogy ebből nagy vita lesz. Szerintem sokkal inkább probléma, hogy az összes egykori vármegyéről szóló cikk elég katasztrofális állapotban van. Sajnos alig van itt magyar szerkesztő, pedig nagyon sok a Teendő, én sem vagyok már annyira aktív, mint korábban. La mayoría de los polgármestereit írom de Budapest, aztán remélhetőleg visszatérek a középkorra. -- Norden1990 ( discusión ) 21:58 15 sep 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Norden1990 : ,

ok, bármikor írhatsz. A vitákhoz hozzászoktam, öt éve folyamatosan támadtak, támadnak, már vagy ötször mószeroltak be vagy jelentettek fel, de mindig elbuktak és végül az a módosítás, illetve szükséges objektivitás amit forszíroztam ma már permamens és az összes szócikkben gond nélkül ki lehet javítani őket, és olyan horderejű dolgokról van szó, ami szomszédaink tudatlanságát illetően hatalmas felháborodást kelt, de a történelmi tények azok tények (és senki nem merte feszegetni őket). Borsoka nagyon elegáns és kimért, nem megy bele Feltétlenül folyton vitákba, de ha hasonló dolgokról van szó, nagyon kitartóan és kulturáltan képviseli a megfelelő álláspontot, Fakirbakir Hál'Istennek ha kell keményebben is belemegy a dolgokba, segít nekem. Körtefával keveset tudtam beszélni, kár hogy talán nem annyira aktív mostanában. Én igyekszem folyamatosan a vadhajtásaimat lenyesegetni, ehhez azonban a Ti támogatásotok is kell, nem maradhatok mindig egyedül, hiába van igazam, sajnos ezen a helyen a lobbi is számít és sajnos sokszor nem azért használják fel amire, de én es egyre jobban fejlődöm. Azért kérlek ne add fel és próbálj aktív maradni, nekem sem volt időm az elmúlt négy évben de ezen a nyáron változtattam és Felturbóztam magam, viccesen fogalmazva én vagyok az elővéd ütközőzóna, Nektek már csak higgadtan söprögetni kell :) Azért a Wikiproject Hungría-t jobban össze lehetne fogni, bár nem tudom most hogy áll a dolog vagy ki irányítja, illetve mennyi inaktív user van, tényleg csak titeket látlak szinte történelmi témában, habár Enginerfactories-el mostanában sokat találkozom, azt mondja egy csomó cikket ő írt, de mindig elfelejti az accountját és újat csinál, elvileg az egész Austria-Hungary cikket ő írta. Egy szó mint száz, nagyon sok torténelmi ügyet kiharcoltam és ezzel lehet hogy tisztelnek - és tartanak is tőlem - de az adminok is egyre jobban megismernek és sokszor segítenek is. Úgyhogy innen már nem léphetünk vissza, ki kell állnunk az objektív és hiteles történelemszemléletért.( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:10, 15 de septiembre de 2016 (UTC)) [ respuesta ]

Editar en guerraJanos Bihari

Se le ha advertido por guerra de ediciones y ataques personales por este cierre en WP:AN3. Esto parece ser una disputa sobre si se debe usar el nombre eslovaco o el nombre húngaro para el condado donde nació Bihari. Si es así, ciertamente cae dentro del caso de arbitraje de WP:ARBEE , que busca prevenir ediciones motivadas por el nacionalismo. Gracias, EdJohnston ( discusión ) 15:59, 13 de noviembre de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ EdJohnston : debes estar bromeando, ya que abrí la queja debido a una guerra de ediciones que NO fue iniciada por mí, así que no entiendo por qué me advierten... Lamento que no hayas entendido que ("ahora Bratislava") nunca fue el nombre eslovaco de ese condado, la CIUDAD de la actual BRATISLAVA se confundió con un CONDADO histórico inexistente y ni siquiera se puso el nombre húngaro (Pozsony Vármegye), sino el nombre de referencia en inglés de su artículo original, el Condado de Pozsony . Espero que sepas que, por mi parte, no se trata de ningún "nacionalismo", simplemente se corrigió un error. No hice ningún ataque personal, se describe la conducta a largo plazo durante meses de este usuario provocador. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 16:15, 13 de noviembre de 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Deberías haberte tomado más en serio la advertencia de EdJohnston . En lugar de eso, atacaste nuevamente al otro editor con el que estás discutiendo aquí. Por lo tanto, te he bloqueado durante 48 horas por el ataque. Consulta WP:GAB para conocer tus derechos de apelación. -- Bbb23 ( discusión ) 14:55 14 nov 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Bbb23 : ,

¿Te diste cuenta de que Edjohnston no leyó cuidadosamente los detalles del incidente y cometió más errores al juzgar los detalles? Simplemente revisa los incidentes o la página de discusión del artículo. La diferencia que estás mostrando no contiene ningún ataque, sino una descripción justa y una respuesta sobre un problema en el que la otra parte está provocando y engañando a editores y administradores continuamente. En Wikipedia, no se puede nombrar ni describir ningún comportamiento o patrón disruptivo. Si describo lo que sucedió, ¿cómo podría ser un ataque? Y, por favor, responde también, ¿cómo es posible que, mediante un incidente de ANI, se tome alguna medida sin escuchar también a la otra parte? ¿Crees que este es un comportamiento adecuado o objetivo del administrador? ¿Ni siquiera hay una audiencia o un juicio, solo una sentencia ad hoc? ( KIENGIR (discusión) 19:35, 14 de noviembre de 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Los nombres de lugares en Europa del Este se incluyen enWP:ARBEE

Este mensaje contiene información importante sobre una situación administrativa en Wikipedia. No implica ninguna mala conducta en relación con tus propias contribuciones hasta la fecha.

Por favor lea atentamente esta información:

El Comité de Arbitraje ha autorizado la aplicación de sanciones discrecionales a las páginas relativas a Europa del Este, tema que usted ha editado. La decisión del Comité se encuentra aquí .

Las sanciones discrecionales son un sistema de regulación de conducta diseñado para minimizar las interrupciones en temas controvertidos. Esto significa que los administradores no involucrados pueden imponer sanciones por ediciones relacionadas con el tema que no se adhieran al propósito de Wikipedia , nuestros estándares de conducta o políticas relevantes . Los administradores pueden imponer sanciones como restricciones de edición , prohibiciones o bloqueos . Este mensaje es para notificarle que se autorizan sanciones para el tema que está editando. Antes de continuar editando este tema, familiarícese con el sistema de sanciones discrecionales. No dude en ponerse en contacto conmigo o con otro editor si tiene alguna pregunta.

EdJohnston ( discusión ) 16:00 13 nov 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Comportamiento incivil

Actualmente hay una discusión en Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de administradores/Incidencias sobre un problema en el que usted puede haber estado involucrado. Gracias.

@ Bbb23 : , esto debe ser una broma, ¿cómo juzgar y arbitrar sin leer o escuchar a la otra parte? ¿Leíste las páginas de discusión correspondientes, o solo las diferencias apenas mostradas por el usuario manipulador? No se han realizado ataques personales, este usuario me acosa desde hace 3 meses porque provoca constantemente y cumple con WP:NOTHERE y WP:I simplemente no me gusta. Los administradores tienen una gran responsabilidad, con sus juicios, ahora apoyaste -incluso sin saberlo- a un provocador tendencioso. Por favor, revisa "Usuario:Ditinili reportado por Usuario:KIENGIR (Resultado: Protección, Ambos advertidos)" y la página de discusión de János Bihari y también los errores de EdJohnston, que también fue acuñado y fue descuidado. La información más importante es el último comentario mío en la página de discusión de János Bihari -por supuesto, el informe lo evitó-, no te dejes acuñar. Pronto tendré que plantear un incidente de WP:ANI relacionado con el error de juicio de administradores descuidados que, sin investigar realmente el caso, simplemente intentan deshacerse rápidamente del problema. ¡Describir una situación no es un ataque personal! ¿Crees que en serio me estás advirtiendo de una discusión de ANI en la que no puedo participar? ¿Estamos en el comunismo? ¿En serio? ( KIENGIR (discusión) 15:22 14 nov 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

KIENGIR, has llevado a cabo una discusión enérgica y llena de ira sobre una cuestión de cuatro o cinco palabras. Seguramente, esas palabras podrían negociarse para llegar a un acuerdo sin mucho alboroto, pero cuando necesitas 500 palabras de prosa airada apenas gramaticalmente correctas para decir algo, no parece que valga la pena el esfuerzo de razonar contigo. EdJohnston ( discusión ) 15:32 14 nov 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ EdJohnston : , en serio, pero ¿por qué no entiendes la causa/fenómeno? Ni siquiera leíste bien el caso, no sabías sobre apoyar otras opiniones o enlaces, no revisaste los antecedentes del otro usuario, ni siquiera interpretaste correctamente una diferencia, no reconociste que corregir un error no es una guerra de ediciones, no quisiste hablar y dices que no vale la pena el esfuerzo de razonar contigo ??? ¿Significa que en el futuro, si un editor disruptivo con un objetivo malicioso está continuamente provocando/engañando a los usuarios, administradores en páginas de discusión, generando incidentes, fingiendo ataques personales y falta de civismo si hay una descripción clara de su actividad disruptiva, y al generar problemas ANI inútiles persistiendo en eliminar a otros editores con argumentos y evidencias reales y correctos, tendrá una ventaja? ¿Qué aprenderá el otro usuario de esto? ¿Cómo se detendrá su comportamiento? ¿Existe alguna regla de WIKI con respecto a la persecución o provocación o difamación o engaño deliberado a un editor o administrador? ¿O el problema es que no existe y por eso basta con reclamar un ataque personal por parte de diffs seleccionados y truncados sin ninguna conexión o abuso personal? ¿Cómo tratar a un usuario que por su primera entrada está comprobando la contribución de otro usuario y comienza a perseguirlo y seguirlo durante meses en todas las páginas? ¡Esos objetivos son maliciosos! ¿Cómo luchar contra ellos, Edjohnston, honestamente? ¿Debería plantear incidentes? ¿Qué he logrado? ¿El ladrón dice que atrapen al ladrón? ¿Y el chiste es todo sobre una edición cuya validez se puede verificar en dos segundos? ¡Tienes que sentir que esto no está bien!

EdJohnston , ¡todo estaba en tus manos! Deberías haber castigado el objetivo disruptivo de los intentos de juego de 3RR y deberías haber verificado el estado del artículo como correcto después de 2 segundos de verificación y deberías haber advertido a la otra parte que esperara la respuesta a su pregunta de mediación y hasta después para discutir o persistir en una modificación adicional. Ahora, ves, lo que causaste y el otro usuario vivió con la oportunidad y se rió de ti y de mí. ¡Aquí no es importante mi persona, en primer lugar, sino los artículos de calidad correcta, y para ti la reputación y el arbitraje justo deberían ser lo que evite tales escaladas! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 17:40 14 nov 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

"CONSENSO"

@ Bbb23 : ,

Ok, ¿podrías por favor responder también a mis preguntas anteriores hacia ti?

@ Norden1990 : ,

Para que haya consenso, es necesario que todos los participantes estén de acuerdo. Véase WP:CONSENSUS, especialmente las secciones " Se puede asumir que hay consenso si ningún editor se opone a un cambio " y "Los editores que ignoran las discusiones de la página de discusión pero continúan editando o revirtiendo material en disputa, o que obstaculizan las discusiones, pueden ser culpables de edición disruptiva y recibir sanciones. No siempre se puede asumir que hay consenso simplemente porque los editores dejan de responder a las discusiones de la página de discusión en las que ya han participado " .

-> He participado en muchas creaciones de consenso, normalmente se espera después de la propuesta y solo si todos los participantes expresaron sus opiniones y están de acuerdo se puede ejecutar el cambio, incluso hay que esperar uno o dos días en caso...

La mejor solución parece ser retroceder la página a su contenido anterior hasta que realmente se cree un consenso. He expresado mis preocupaciones anteriormente, pero ni siquiera esperaste para reaccionar a la propuesta, eso no es justo ni correcto y va en contra de las reglas (sin embargo, estoy seguro de que sucedió por negligencia), pero no puedo creer cómo @ EdJohnston : pudo eliminar la protección sin verificar si se cumplían los requisitos necesarios para WP: CONSENSUS... (y mis preguntas hacia él aún no recibieron respuesta)

Pido a todos los participantes que sean justos y respeten las reglas de Wikipedia, esta es la tercera vez que algo no está bien, esto definitivamente no es aceptable...( KIENGIR (discusión) 21:19 14 nov 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Nota sobre el sondeo y la búsqueda de ayuda externa

Hola @ KIENGIR : escribo aquí debido a tu pedido en AN/I. Contrariamente a lo que dices, estas ediciones [3][4][5] se interpretarían como una búsqueda de apoyo para una disputa de edición sobre el contenido. La razón es que notificaste específicamente a los editores que probablemente compartirían tu punto de vista.

Existen formas aceptables y constructivas de pedir ayuda. A menudo, en las discusiones de una página, los editores se comunican con otros como este ( @KIENGIR :) que han contribuido previamente a una discusión relevante en la página de una manera importante, y se comunican específicamente con TODOS los editores, incluidos aquellos que no han estado de acuerdo con ellos. Una solución aún mejor es lanzar una RfC ( WP:RFC ), donde un mayor número de editores, que probablemente no tengan una posición predeterminada, puedan venir y opinar. También puedes buscar una tercera opinión ( WP:3O ), o hacer una publicación en el tablón de anuncios de puntos de vista neutrales ( WP:POVN ).

Si en un desacuerdo quieres notificar solo a ciertos editores, detente y utiliza los recursos vinculados arriba. Están diseñados para ayudarte en situaciones como esta. - Darouet ( discusión ) 18:33 17 nov 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Darouet :,​​

Contrariamente a tu postura de promover tu punto de vista, tus declaraciones no se sostienen, ya que "La razón es que notificaste específicamente a los editores que probablemente compartirían tu punto de vista". No se sostiene, no conocía su punto de vista, solo sabía que también tienen experiencia en el tema y que editan esos artículos, como ya te dijeron en el ANI. Es inútil que me enseñes las reglas, las conozco y también sé cuándo se necesitan RFC o POVN, etc. ¡Por favor, déjame en paz, no te causé ningún problema, así que no tienes motivos para acosarme! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 19:11 17 nov 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

¿Por qué dices que te acosé? Me pediste específicamente que viniera a publicar aquí, como dos o tres veces. - Darouet ( discusión ) 20:07 17 nov 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Darouet : , porque todavía sigues en la ANI, si nuestra discusión se queda sólo aquí en el futuro, entonces no lo consideraré como acoso. Veamos esta vez cómo te comportas.( KIENGIR (discusión) 20:13 17 nov 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Este es un comentario increíblemente condescendiente y agresivo. Si crees que te estoy acosando, eres libre de denunciarme en ANI. De lo contrario, detente. Después de todo, eres tú quien me exigió repetidamente que viniera aquí. - Darouet ( discusión ) 03:15 22 nov 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

,: Darouet , no estoy de acuerdo, cero agresividad, lamento que el usuario todavía no haya entendido el punto, aunque ya ha tenido suficiente. Como dije, no eres considerado el principal culpable de WP:HA, sino otro usuario. Ni siquiera te importa mi "demanda", ya que sigues mencionando y publicando en otro lugar, ¡qué vergüenza otra vez! Tú empezaste todo, no tuve ningún conflicto ni negocio contigo, todo es culpa tuya, así que mejor elige dejarme en paz e ignorarme en todas partes. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 09:34 22 nov 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

De todos modos, no te preocupes. Lamento que un editor haya aprovechado la ocasión del ANI para reavivar viejos rencores contra ti. Obviamente, no fue mi intención. - Darouet ( discusión ) 10:45 22 nov 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Darouet , no me preocupo, pero tienes que entender que deseo dedicar mi valioso tiempo a la edición de calidad. Yo y algunos editores húngaros estamos acostumbrados a que muchas veces seamos el objetivo de algunas direcciones IP, generalmente de los usuarios debido a su odio y aversión hacia los húngaros, incluso si intentan ocultarlo, veremos qué pasa después de un tiempo. No creo que seas uno de ellos, a veces otros nos malinterpretan. Sin embargo, no conozco los detalles de tu caso denunciado, espero que puedas resolver tu problema con ellos. Adiós( KIENGIR (discusión) 14:33 22 nov 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Elecciones de ArbCom 2016¡La votación ya está abierta!

Hola, KIENGIR. La votación para las elecciones del Comité de Arbitraje de 2016 está abierta desde el lunes 21 de noviembre a las 00:00 hasta el domingo 4 de diciembre a las 23:59 para todos los usuarios desbloqueados que hayan registrado una cuenta antes del miércoles 28 de octubre de 2016 a las 00:00 y hayan realizado al menos 150 ediciones en el espacio principal antes del domingo 1 de noviembre de 2016 a las 00:00.

El Comité de Arbitraje es el panel de editores responsable de llevar a cabo el proceso de arbitraje de Wikipedia . Tiene la autoridad de imponer soluciones vinculantes a las disputas entre editores, principalmente en el caso de disputas de conducta graves que la comunidad no ha podido resolver. Esto incluye la autoridad para imponer prohibiciones de sitios , prohibiciones de temas , restricciones de edición y otras medidas necesarias para mantener nuestro entorno de edición. La política de arbitraje describe las funciones y responsabilidades del Comité con mayor detalle.

Si desea participar en las elecciones de 2016, revise las declaraciones de los candidatos y envíe sus opciones en la página de votación . Entrega de mensajes de MediaWiki ( discusión ) 22:08 21 nov 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

Lajos Kossuth

Hola, tu eliminación de las dos últimas partes de mi edición fue innecesaria. ¿Quizás no las entendiste? No existe ninguna palabra en el idioma inglés para diferenciar entre los adjetivos húngaro que denotan la nación/idioma y húngaro como ciudadano del Reino de Hungría. Es una distinción MUY importante que mi edición insinuaba. En cuanto a tu segunda eliminación, ¿puedes explicar por qué consideras que la explicación es superflua?

@Leiduowen: Hola, hacer referencia al ugandés es un enfoque totalmente innecesario, el húngaro es bastante justo y claro. El segundo no era innecesario, era una edición en POV y ni siquiera puede ser la causa principal. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 17:02 3 dic 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Me pregunto si entiendes mi punto. Para explicar la diferencia en inglés, necesitas usar un adjetivo diferente. Si no es ugrio, se debería usar magiar en lugar de húngaro. El término latino histórico Natio Hungarica no tiene equivalente en el idioma inglés moderno, por lo que tu argumento no se sostiene. (Por favor, consulta la entrada de Wikipedia relevante si no estás seguro). En cuanto a tu segunda reversión, ¿estás ignorando el elefante en la habitación? Una búsqueda aleatoria en Google produce muchos artículos que corroboran mi adición, por ejemplo, http://www.karol-duck.estranky.sk/clanky/zoznam-madarskych-umeleckych-pamiatok.html. Si te niegas a tener una conversación seria aquí, solicitaré una revisión de este caso. — Comentario anterior sin firmar agregado por Leiduowen ( discusión • contribuciones ) 17:19, 3 de diciembre de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Leiduowen: Veo que tu punto de vista es erróneo, no tengo que consultar el artículo de Wiki relevante ni nada, soy un experto en el tema. El hecho de que "se considerase húngaro" es totalmente suficiente y comprensible en inglés y, además, el magiar no lo es, mientras que el húngaro sí lo es en todos los casos. El ugrio es una afirmación totalmente falsa e innecesaria aquí, es una familia de idiomas. Además, no "ignoré ningún elefante en la habitación", intentas hacer un elefante sobre cosas que no están necesariamente relacionadas, tu búsqueda aleatoria en Google no "fundamenta" ninguna adición de ese tipo. Nunca me negué a ninguna conversación (seria), no dudes en escribirme. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 19:16, 3 de diciembre de 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Kiengir, no entiendo muy bien lo que quieres decir con "[...] y además, el húngaro no es magiar en todos los casos". Obviamente, no eres un hablante nativo de inglés. ¿Te importaría reformularlo? Tu afirmación de ser experto en el tema no se puede verificar a menos que presentes una lista de artículos que hayas publicado sobre este tema. Además, ¿revisaste el enlace que te envié? Allí se explican las razones por las que todos los monumentos magiares fuera de Hungría fueron demolidos después de 1918. Entonces, ¿qué haces con un editor que se niega a reconocer los hechos? Actualmente estoy estudiando formas de desafiar tus afirmaciones. Una cosa más que deberías explicar: el texto del encabezado afirma que "La forma nativa de este nombre personal es Kossuth Lajos. Este artículo utiliza el orden de nombres occidental". Lo cuestiono a menos que alguien presente su certificado de nacimiento. ¿Por qué una persona de origen eslovaco-alemán debería utilizar la forma húngara de escribir su nombre? Aquí, nuevamente, huele a suposiciones falsas. — Comentario anterior sin firmar añadido por Leiduowen ( discusión • contribs ) 02:30, 4 de diciembre de 2016 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Leiduowen: ,

Lamento que parezcas un usuario inexperto en Wikipedia, pero el experto tiene los conocimientos necesarios. Por ejemplo, húngaro puede ser magiar o cualquier ciudadano húngaro, no son términos excluyentes. He comprobado el enlace y no he encontrado nada que hayas introducido aquí, de todos modos es una maniobra cobarde, una estrategia desde un punto de vista emocional. No me niego a reconocer ningún hecho. En cuanto a la forma nativa "challenge", el uso del orden de los nombres está relacionado con la nacionalidad de la persona, y Kossuth era húngaro, por lo que no parece una suposición falsa. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 10:46 4 dic 2016 (UTC)) [ responder ]

¡Una estrella de granero para ti!

¡Muchas gracias!( KIENGIR (discusión) 21:59 28 mar 2017 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Abril 2017

Se te ha bloqueado la posibilidad de editar durante un período de 48 horas por realizar ediciones disruptivas de forma persistente . Una vez que el bloqueo haya expirado, eres bienvenido a realizar contribuciones útiles . Si crees que hay buenas razones por las que deberías ser desbloqueado, puedes solicitar un desbloqueo leyendo primero la guía para apelar bloqueos y luego agregando el siguiente texto al final de tu página de discusión: .   Neil N ^háblame 22:42, 4 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}

Como sigues creyendo que estabas revirtiendo el vandalismo, puedes aprovechar este momento para leer WP:NOTVAND y, con suerte, dejar de hacer acusaciones disruptivas en el futuro. -- Neil N ^háblame 22:45, 4 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

La solicitud de desbloqueo de este usuario ha sido revisada por un administrador , quien la rechazó. Otros administradores también pueden revisar este bloqueo, pero no deben anular la decisión sin una buena razón (consulte la política de bloqueo ).

KIENGIR (registro de bloques • bloques activos • bloques globales • contribuciones • contribuciones eliminadas • registro de filtros • registro de creaciones • cambiar configuración de bloques • desbloquear • checkuser (registro) )

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Motivo de la solicitud :

Bueno, leí WP:NOTVAND. Estoy confundido, ya que he experimentado cientos de ediciones de otros usuarios en problemas similares -digámoslo así- las ediciones maliciosas pueden notarse fácilmente y nos reunimos muy a menudo con respecto a artículos relacionados con Hungría, y nadie nunca fue castigado por tales palabras. Considero que la decisión de @NeilN : es completamente dura solo porque inicié y lideré una discusión sobre las reglas de Wikipedia correctamente entendidas [6], mi última pregunta ni siquiera fue respondida. Bueno, evitaré mejor la palabra "vandalismo" en el futuro, pero me siento totalmente injusto solo porque he realizado una edición constructiva que fue agradecida, aceptada por usuarios experimentados y restauré la página con el contenido adecuado después de las ediciones de IP de una versión obviamente falsa (incluso sin iniciar una discusión u olvidar advertir a la IP sobre el 3RR) para tener tal castigo. Estoy sorprendido. Comprobar que en 1904 lo que era Hungría y Rumanía, y comprobar que el cuadro de información debe contener el nombre oficial contemporáneo, etc., mostraría inmediatamente que mis ediciones NO fueron disruptivas. El comentario de NeilN en la discusión de que no tendría el primer bloque, no creo que ninguna historia tenga conexión con el caso actual, y si leemos la discusión en el ANI, todos deben ver que tengo buena puntería, siento que NeilN se enojaría con mis preguntas... en general, aprendí del caso que tengo que tener mucho cuidado con las palabras que uso, pero la etiqueta "ediciones disruptivas", especialmente el contenido que restauré, no se sostiene, ya que es preciso y apropiado, como lo aprobaron y reconocieron otros (y cualquiera puede verificarlo). La IP se reirá de nosotros. KIENGIR (discusión) 23:16 4 abr 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

Motivo del rechazo :

Tu solicitud de desbloqueo demuestra que aún no entiendes qué es el vandalismo. Por un lado, dices que evitarás la etiqueta en el futuro, pero al mismo tiempo, claramente no aceptas que lo que llamaste vandalismo no fuera vandalismo (dijiste que estabas "confundido" por la política y llamaste maliciosas las ediciones de la IP). Evitar usar la palabra en el futuro es un paso en la dirección correcta, pero una comprensión real de cuándo se aplica y cuándo no sería significativamente mejor. De lo contrario, tenderás a olvidarla y usarla cuando no deberías o usarás otras palabras que significan lo mismo pero omitirás la palabra en sí. Bbb23 ( discusión ) 23:52 4 abr 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

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Si desea realizar más solicitudes de desbloqueo, lea primero la guía para apelar bloqueos y luego vuelva a utilizar la plantilla {{ unblock }} . Si realiza demasiadas solicitudes de desbloqueo poco convincentes o disruptivas, es posible que no pueda editar esta página hasta que su bloqueo haya expirado. No elimine esta revisión de desbloqueo mientras esté bloqueado.

La solicitud de desbloqueo de este usuario ha sido revisada por un administrador , quien aceptó la solicitud.

KIENGIR (registro de bloques • bloques activos • bloques globales • contribuciones • contribuciones eliminadas • registro de filtros • registro de creaciones • cambiar configuración de bloques • desbloquear • checkuser (registro) )

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Motivo de la solicitud :

@ Bbb23 : , bueno, después de leer WP: NOTVAND creo que tienes que estar de acuerdo en que podré decidir qué NO es vandalismo, al menos, considerando que la "inclinación a olvidar" no es una opción. Como tú y otros pueden ver, trato de entender WP y sus reglas cada vez más, nadie podría decir que no me esfuerzo por ser cada vez más profesional, y siempre he aprendido de los casos anteriores, como ves, una vez que he cometido un error, nunca lo he vuelto a cometer. Como he aprendido de este caso. Me siento muy dolido por una sanción tan repentina y dura, aunque mi puntería era buena en cuanto a la veracidad y precisión del artículo. Creo que al menos esto @ NeilN : debería haberlo tenido en cuenta, y debería haberme advertido de que leyera WP: NOTVAND primero y si después no veía ninguna mejora, entendería una medida tan dura. Por lo tanto, consideraría justo que al menos se redujera mi bloqueo durante 24 horas, si se denegara el desbloqueo general. Esta es mi última solicitud de desbloqueo en este tema, no deseo utilizar más la plantilla, pero este tema realmente me dejó patas arriba... KIENGIR (discusión) 00:33 5 abr 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

Aceptar razón :

Puede que la dirección IP sea incorrecta, pero no fue vandalismo. Parece que tienes dificultades para distinguir entre ambas cosas. Por favor, dime que entiendes la diferencia entre ediciones de mala fe y de buena fe , porque eso es clave aquí. Dicho esto, no veo ningún problema en reducir el bloqueo a 24 horas si el administrador que lo bloquea no se opone. El_C 01:00, 5 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ El C : No sé si mi respuesta es la adecuada aquí o debería estar fuera de esta plantilla, ENTIENDO cuál es la diferencia, tal vez me influyó que recientemente en muchos artículos relacionados con Hungría los títeres de calcetín están haciendo ediciones similares casi cada tres días. Veo que tuve que iniciar una discusión en la página de discusión y hacer una advertencia de guerra de ediciones, y después de la segunda reversión de la IP una plantilla de advertencia de 3RR. No tenía idea de que la reversión de Cluebot no cuenta. En la práctica, no necesariamente iniciamos discusiones en la página de discusión de este tipo de ediciones de IP, sin embargo, se recomienda independientemente de que el editor esté después de cualquier segunda reversión. Sé que independientemente del tipo y el objetivo de la edición, tengo que seguir WP:AGF y WP:AAGF y debería haber explicado la razón obvia para restaurar el artículo en el registro de ediciones. ¡Gracias por su comprensión! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 01:15, 5 de abril de 2017 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Quizás eso te influyó, pero cada edición debe abordarse con buena fe. Dicho esto, AGF no es un pacto suicida : debes usar el sentido común cuando una edición es maliciosa o no. El bot es solo un bot, no puede saber nada. No es consciente y sufre de falsos positivos . Debes imaginar que la IP pensó que estaba siendo precisa, incluso si no lo era. Wikipedia está dirigida por editores que asumen la buena intención de otros editores. El_C 01:28, 5 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

Antecedentes para la revisión de admin: Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de administradores/Edición en guerra#User_talk:80.116.134.46_reportado_por_User:KIENGIR_.28Resultado:_Ambos_usuarios_advertidos.29 -- Neil N ^háblame 23:22, 4 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

En cuanto a tu primera solicitud de desbloqueo, aún consideras que las ediciones son vandalismo incluso después de leer WP:NOTVAND . -- Neil N ^háblame 00:37, 5 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ NeilN :, hasta donde sé, al estar bloqueado se me permite usar mi página de usuario (es mejor escribir una exención de responsabilidad con anticipación, antes de tener algún otro problema inesperado), así que en resumen mi respuesta es:

Leí nuevamente con atención mi primera solicitud de desbloqueo y no encontré ninguna acusación o frase que confirmara que "aún consideraría vandalismo las ediciones incluso después de leer WP:NOTVAND " ( KIENGIR (discusión) 00:55 5 abr 2017 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Usted calificó las ediciones de IP como "una versión obviamente falsa", lo cual es vandalismo. Voy a tratar de explicar qué es vandalismo nuevamente. Mire el comentario de El C en su informe: "La ciudad hoy es rumana, era austrohúngara en el momento de su nacimiento. Punto final". ¿Es concebible y comprensible que el sujeto pueda llamarse rumano? Sí, como también es concebible y comprensible que el sujeto se llame húngaro, astrohúngaro y estadounidense (todos estos se han utilizado en el artículo a lo largo de los años). No son "falsos" y cambiarlos no es un intento malicioso de obstruir o derrotar nuestro propósito aquí. Puede que sean "menos correctos" desde su punto de vista, pero los cambios a esos términos no son vandalismo (como lo sería, por ejemplo, un cambio a "peruano"). Wikipedia tiene estas controversias sobre nacionalidades todo el tiempo. Vea Wikipedia:Guerras_de_edición_más_poco_precisas#Disputas_étnicas_y_nacionales para ejemplos más notorios. -- Neil N ^{habla conmigo} 01:06, 5 abril 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

( conflicto de edición ) En realidad, me costó entenderte. ¿Por qué pensaste que extenderte tanto sería de alguna ayuda? Tu mala gramática ya te hace difícil de comprender. Y lo único que les importa a los administradores es que hayas aprendido la lección, pero sigues y sigues (sobre 1904, etc.). Las ediciones de IP pueden haber sido incorrectas, pero no fueron vandalismo. Punto final. Por favor, organiza tus pensamientos en fragmentos más cortos . El_C 01:10, 5 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ NeilN : , @ El C : , Acabo de ver tus respuestas aquí, mientras tanto ya le respondí a El_C arriba... por favor, dame un poco de tiempo para leer lo que has escrito aquí, para que pueda reaccionar.( KIENGIR (discusión) 01:19 5 abr 2017 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Estimado @NeilN : ,​

Realmente no entiendo el término "versión obviamente falsa" por qué se consideraría "vandalismo". Incluso si alguien hace una edición de buena fe, puede cometer errores. Tengo que decirles de antemano que soy un profesional de peso pesado en lo que respecta a la precisión histórica, especialmente en lo que respecta a Europa, los nombres contemporáneos, el status quo, la nacionalidad, la etnia, la ciudadanía, la historia y la ubicación, especialmente los asuntos de Hungría. Lo que @ El C : ha escrito es obvio, y "mi versión" cumple plenamente con eso, y la práctica de Wikipedia, el IP no lo entendió por una razón. Si revisas con cuidado, el tema no era sobre si lo tratan como húngaro/austrohúngaro/estadounidense/rumano, sino sobre múltiples cuestiones:

- 1. Infobox: el status quo actual y el nombre en el momento del nacimiento

- 2. Plomo: XXX-nacido (se refiere al país donde nació, especialmente si tiene una etnia diferente o posteriormente una nacionalidad/ciudadanía diferente)

- 3. Núcleo: el lugar de nacimiento contemporáneo, mediante la indicación del status quo actual (según la práctica común de WP)

Lo que enumeraste arriba y trataste como "concebible y comprensible: SÍ":

- "Rumano" es obviamente falso, ya que el sujeto no tiene ninguna conexión con ese país y no tiene ascendencia ni ciudadanía rumana en vida (un caso similar fue el famoso problema de Hermann Oberth , que se resolvió hace mucho tiempo)

- "Austrohúngaro" se referiría mejor a un estado de pertenencia u origen, pero tal nacionalidad o ciudadanía nunca existió, ya que Austria-Hungría era una monarquía conjunta de dos países separados, que tenían ciudadanías y nacionalidades separadas (austriaca y húngara)

- "Húngaro" sería apropiado solo hasta que tuviera la ciudadanía húngara, pero con una observación: étnicamente era un suabo del Danubio, pero según la práctica de WP, su última ciudadanía/nacionalidad es decisiva.

- "Americano" es CORRECTO, según lo mencionado anteriormente.

Tenga en cuenta que es posible que haya confundido la nacionalidad con el país de nacimiento, ya que "nacido en Hungría" (esto se establece mucho más largo si intervengo en el artículo) es correcto, ya que nació en Hungría; establecer esto como "nacido en Rumania" es obviamente falso.

Tenga en cuenta también que tengo una experiencia muy, muy larga en lo que respecta a cuestiones de nacionalidad, me reunía con ellos todos los días, ¡pero no se trataba de eso! El IP eliminó sistemáticamente el hecho de que nació en Hungría y eliminó todo lo que hiciera referencia a Hungría o Austria-Hungría, lo cual era inapropiado. El_C, perdón por ser tan extenso, pero tienes que ver que soy completamente preciso y cuidadoso con mis ediciones, no habría sido tan extenso si, por ejemplo, NeilN ahora mismo no hubiera confundido una cuestión de nacionalidad con una simple cuestión de "país de nacimiento". ( KIENGIR (discusión) 01:45 5 abr 2017 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Nosotros dos también tenemos "una experiencia muy, muy larga en cuestiones de nacionalidad", pero eso no es lo que está en juego. Lo que está en juego es que llames vandalismo a ediciones que pueden haberse hecho de buena fe. Las ediciones de IP pueden no haber sido perfectas, pero tampoco son desfiguración. La próxima vez, usa la página de discusión del artículo para cuestionar esas ediciones. Eso es lo que deberías aprender de esto. Ve a la página de discusión y di "querido IP, no estoy de acuerdo con tus ediciones por esto y esto y aquello". Eso es lo que deberías haber hecho, no asustar potencialmente a un novato llamando vandalismo a sus ediciones. Esa fue la decisión equivocada. El_C 02:42, 5 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

KIENGIR, probablemente podrías acortar esta discusión si simplemente admitieras que tu uso de "vandalismo" en este resumen de edición del 3 de abril no fue correcto. Tu extrema confianza en que tienes razón sobre el asunto fáctico no viene al caso. Nos gustaría escuchar que usarás el término "vandalismo" correctamente en el futuro. EdJohnston ( discusión ) 02:49 5 abr 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

El hecho de que necesites señalar que "puede que hayas confundido la nacionalidad con el país de nacimiento" muestra exactamente por qué la edición no fue vandalismo. El IP, de buena fe, podría fácilmente no haber hecho esta distinción. Mira, alguien puede escribir "George Washington nació en Estados Unidos...". Técnicamente sería incorrecto, pero nadie trataría eso como vandalismo. En cuanto a "versión obviamente falsa", realmente necesitas leer WP:VANDALISMO en su totalidad. "Agregar falsedades deliberadamente a los artículos" se trata como vandalismo. Es decir, escribir "George Washington nació en Jamaica..." se trataría como vandalismo. -- Neil N ^háblame 03:06, 5 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

Tienes que convencernos de que entiendes lo que los tres te escribimos directamente arriba. No reduciré tu bloqueo sin el consentimiento de NealN, y es poco probable que él lo consienta, hasta que aceptes nuestro punto colectivo. Para resumir, dos cosas que deberías aprender de esto: 1. Usar la página de discusión del artículo siempre es una buena idea para las disputas. 2. El vandalismo tiene que ver con la desfiguración y no con la edición de buena fe, lo que es posible que hayas confundido con un error inocente. El_C 04:58, 5 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ EdJohnston : , @ NeilN : , @ El C : , Usaré el término "vandalismo" correctamente en el futuro. Revisé WP:VANDALISM , creo que el patrón de estrés está en la palabra deliberadamente , y siempre que se trate de una edición no es obvio, porque tal vez se cometió por un error de buena fe, o negligencia o ignorancia, etc. que no se puede juzgar como vandalismo. Bueno, entonces usaré todo el tiempo la página de discusión después de la segunda reversión. También tengo una pregunta más, si digo que, por ejemplo, "una edición estableció una versión obviamente falsa", ¿por qué significaría necesariamente que habría acusado a un editor de vandalismo? Dado que solo hice una observación, un resultado de una actividad y he definido el estado actual del artículo, no la posible buena o mala intención del usuario. Es decir, si una edición de buena fe por negligencia establecería que "Arnold Schwarzenegger es un actor nacido en Suiza", ¿no puedo calificar el resultado con esas palabras? Gracias a todos. KIENGIR (discusión) 10:28 5 abr 2017 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Te he desbloqueado. Sospecho que el hecho de que el inglés no sea tu lengua materna es un impedimento en este caso. Si dices que algo es obviamente falso, estás insinuando o declarando abiertamente que el editor está añadiendo deliberadamente información falsa al artículo. Ejemplo: "David Bowie fue el primer hombre en caminar sobre la luna" es obviamente falso -> vandalismo. Si un editor cambia algo que es incorrecto, pero plausible, es mejor decir "eso estuvo mal". -- Neil N ^háblame 12:16, 5 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ NeilN : ¡Muchas gracias! Sí, el inglés no es mi lengua materna. Por lo tanto, especialmente "nosotros" conocemos el lenguaje científico o informático y lo que las palabras pueden pesar o contar en un entorno de ese tipo, pero no estamos muy seguros de lo que implicaría en un entorno anglosajón nativo. Si entendí bien tu argumentación, es probable que "implicar fuertemente" o "afirmar abiertamente" se acerque a más del 90% de lo que prácticamente consideraría un trasfondo deliberado. Bueno, aprendí entonces a tener cuidado con las palabras y su significado para no tener ni siquiera una sospecha de malentendido. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 15:57 5 abr 2017 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Advertencia sobre el sondeo

Publicarás mensajes como estos en inglés o no los publicarás en absoluto. También estás muy cerca de que te bloqueen por hacer campaña . -- Neil N ^háblame 16:56, 12 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

Estimado @NeilN : conozco la política de WP:CANVAS, no he violado ninguna regla al respecto, ya que a un usuario le pedí que verificara los acontecimientos y la discusión, y posiblemente que dijera su opinión, ya que sentí que otros pueden comportarse demasiado groseros conmigo. Por otro usuario le llamé la atención también para que verificara, de manera similar, pero no tuve ninguna influencia adecuada para que editaran el artículo de cierta manera. " En general, es perfectamente aceptable notificar a otros editores sobre discusiones en curso, siempre que se haga con la intención de mejorar la calidad de la discusión ampliando la participación para lograr un consenso más completo". ¿ Podrías decirme por qué posiblemente estoy cerca de bloquearme? ¿Hay alguna regla que no conozco correctamente o los mensajes que no están en inglés están prohibidos en las páginas de discusión de los usuarios? Por favor, aclárame, deseo cumplir completamente con las reglas. Gracias( KIENGIR (discusión) 17:54, 12 de abril de 2017 (UTC)) [ responder ]

WP:SPEAKENGLISH. "Por favor, léanlo en el artículo de Laszlo Castle y las ediciones recientes y, definitivamente, la página de discusión. No quiero que se arrastren a ninguna parte, las quejas anteriores de un editor son muy duramente atacadas por todo tipo de razones, reales e imaginarias en el pasado, en realidad es solo la precisión y la exactitud controladas, que lamentablemente todavía son muchas cuestiones históricas" no es un mensaje neutral para los editores que no han editado previamente el artículo. -- Neil N ^háblame 18:16, 12 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ NeilN : Bueno, la posible traducción de Google no es totalmente precisa (es lo habitual en el caso del húngaro, así como en el de los sujetos y las oraciones pasivas), pero entendí tu preocupación. Usaré el inglés y, en caso de que así sea, trabajaré mucho más intensamente en la neutralidad. No sabía que la neutralidad cuenta en relación con la historia anterior, si no está relacionada con el contenido factual/debatido/reciente del artículo actual. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 18:24, 12 de abril de 2017 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Gracias. Por eso es necesario utilizar el inglés, para que otros editores, incluidos los administradores, puedan asegurarse de que se utiliza el lenguaje adecuado. Y es mucho mejor colocar una notificación neutral en la página de discusión de un proyecto wiki relevante que notificar a editores seleccionados. -- Neil N ^háblame 18:33, 12 de abril de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

Nombres geográficos

Kiengir, por favor (POR FAVOR), intenta evitar conflictos. He evitado cambios innecesarios en los nombres geográficos, espero lo mismo de tu parte. Por ejemplo, si el artículo trata sobre la Batalla de Trnava, entonces espero que el nombre sea coherente en todo el artículo. Lo mismo se aplica a la Batalla de Ilava, donde hay un nombre en inglés bien establecido, la forma húngara 'Illava' no existía en el siglo XV y no hay ninguna razón para usar una variación contemporánea (además, en otros artículos no inspeccionamos en detalle la variación contemporánea del nombre y usamos, por ejemplo, Pressburg en lugar de Presburch). -- Ditinili ( discusión ) 05:13, 2 de julio de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Ditinili : Siempre trato de evitar conflictos, ahora fuiste tú quien inició uno de nuevo, de la nada, parcialmente innecesario. El artículo podría fácilmente ser renombrado como Batalla de Nagyszombat, es un gesto si queremos como está ahora, y el título del artículo no tiene ninguna conexión con el nombre, donde se usan estándares básicos. Sobre el otro artículo, no sé por qué repites algo que ya está desactualizado, ya que reconocí la validez de Lewa, etc. Al parecer usas esto con las variaciones para reclamar cualquier versión moderna, por lo que no sería húngara (en primer lugar). Así que por favor, ten esa flexibilidad y gestos que también apliqué contigo recientemente. Tampoco reclamamos nombres húngaros en primer lugar en ningún artículo de Checoslovaquia o Eslovaquia a partir de 1920, pero respetamos los nombres eslovacos.( KIENGIR (discusión) 10:07 2 jul 2017 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Ibolya Korodi

¿Podrías ayudarme con esto, por favor? - Biruitorul ^Talk 02:56, 12 de septiembre de 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Biruitorul : listo, espero...( KIENGIR (discusión) 18:52, 12 de septiembre de 2017 (UTC)) [ respuesta ]

Jolie Gabor

¿Te referiste al debate de la página de discusión sobre las categorías relevantes? Creo que hubiera sido más wiki agregar tus comentarios allí, antes de volver a la página después de un intervalo apropiado, como hice yo. Valetude ( discusión ) 23:22 10 oct 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Valetude : ,​

Como ves, no he revertido todo, sobre todo he dejado tus modificaciones en cuanto a la eliminación de los asuntos de "memoristas". Pero eliminar el resto es inapropiado y no he visto ninguna razón para ello en la página de discusión. En cuanto a ser "similar a una wiki", como ya sabes, los nuevos cambios deben ser discutidos y consensuados para cualquier modificación, no de la versión ya existente, especialmente si son estables desde hace mucho tiempo. Así que, como ves, fui totalmente objetivo, y al final la parte relevante de tu consideración -habiéndola indicado en la página de discusión- fue aceptada también por mí. Saludos.( KIENGIR (discusión) 13:44 11 oct 2017 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Mensaje para los votantes de la ArbCom en las elecciones de 2017

Hola, KIENGIR. La votación para las elecciones del Comité de Arbitraje de 2017 está abierta hasta las 23:59 del domingo 10 de diciembre. Todos los usuarios que registraron una cuenta antes del sábado 28 de octubre de 2017, realizaron al menos 150 ediciones en el espacio principal antes del miércoles 1 de noviembre de 2017 y no están bloqueados actualmente pueden votar. Los usuarios con cuentas alternativas solo pueden votar una vez.

El Comité de Arbitraje es el panel de editores responsable de llevar a cabo el proceso de arbitraje de Wikipedia . Tiene la autoridad de imponer soluciones vinculantes a las disputas entre editores, principalmente en el caso de disputas de conducta graves que la comunidad no ha podido resolver. Esto incluye la autoridad para imponer prohibiciones de sitios , prohibiciones de temas , restricciones de edición y otras medidas necesarias para mantener nuestro entorno de edición. La política de arbitraje describe las funciones y responsabilidades del Comité con mayor detalle.

Si desea participar en las elecciones de 2017, revise los candidatos y envíe sus opciones en la página de votación . Entrega de mensajes de MediaWiki ( discusión ) 18:42 3 dic 2017 (UTC) [ responder ]

2018

¡Feliz año nuevo! Fakirbakir ( discusión ) 12:41 1 enero 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Comportamiento en la conversación: Batalla de Szina

Tenga en cuenta que he planteado el tema de la interacción entre usted y el usuario: Ditinili en WP: ANI. Saludos, Cinderella157 ( discusión ) 02:08, 7 de marzo de 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Kiengedni es kiengesztelni

Az mas mint ez. Charla de copia limpia 05:11 , 10 de junio ^de 2018 (UTC) [ respuesta ]

Hola, no entiendo la palabra "kiengeszni", no es una palabra húngara común y no tiene significado... sin ella me temo que no podré interpretar tu mensaje correctamente...( KIENGIR (discusión) 10:01 10 jun 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

¿Es la mayoría de los trabajos? Limpiar Copiar conversación 10:19 10 jun 2018 ⁽ UTC) [ responder ]

Debes saber que, según el acuerdo, tengo que hablar inglés aquí. Por supuesto, lo mejor es que nos entendamos...( KIENGIR (discusión) 10:23 10 jun 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Ya veo, "kiengesztelni"... sí, ahora lo entiendo.( KIENGIR (discusión) 10:24 10 jun 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

La mejor manera de ignorar

Caíste en su trampa. Este es su principal objetivo: un debate interminable sobre nada. Borsoka ( discusión ) 17:25 4 jul 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Borsoka : ,​

Bueno, desde hace tiempo estas actividades en la página correspondiente son sospechosas...( KIENGIR (discusión) 20:16 4 jul 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Obviamente estás en su trampa. Provoca debates largos y aburridos para evitar que otros editores intervengan o den una tercera opinión. Te pido amablemente (=Könyörgöm) que no lo alimentes. Borsoka ( discusión ) 02:28 5 jul 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Máximo infierno

Si conocieras mejor la historia de Hungría, sabrías que había muchas etnias en Hungría. Eso no significa que él haya nacido en Hungría, ¡había mucha gente en Hungría en esa época que ni siquiera hablaba húngaro! Así que no sé si Hell tenía escritos en húngaro, solo conozco sus obras en latín y alemán.

Ha ismernéd jobban Mo. történetét, akkor tudnád hogy ott rengeteg nemzetiség élt együtt. Légyszíves ne legyél okosabb nálam Mo. történetéről és egykori körülményeiről.

- Milei.vencel ( discusión ) 13:28, 17 de julio de 2018 (UTC) [ respuesta ]

@ Milei.vencel : Lo siento, te equivocas, sé que había muchas etnias en Hungría, etc. Tal vez no sepas lo que significa "nacionalidad", no es necesariamente lo mismo que etnicidad. Nacionalidad significa "pertenencia a una nación", "nacionalidad autodeclarada" y/o "ciudadanía" en términos modernos. Hell sin duda pertenecía a Hungría, se declaró húngaro y tradujo las leyes mineras húngaras al alemán, por lo que tenía que saber húngaro. Por cierto, en esa época casi todo estaba escrito en latín o alemán.( KIENGIR (discusión) 13:41 17 jul 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

No. Nacionalidad = etnicidad... CIUDADANÍA significa lo que estás diciendo: la ciudadanía no tiene en cuenta la etnicidad; Polonia es más o menos lo que se conoce como un "estado-nación", un país compuesto casi en su totalidad por polacos étnicos, mientras que, a pesar de los constantes comentarios sobre la "nación estadounidense", técnicamente no existe tal cosa; Estados Unidos es una mezcolanza de ingleses, afroamericanos, nativos americanos, latinos, asiáticos, etc., por lo que Estados Unidos no es un "estado-nación". Un ciudadano es un miembro legal de un país/estado. — Comentario anterior sin firmar añadido por 50.111.51.247 ( discusión ) 14:21, 20 de marzo de 2021 (UTC) [ responder ]

@50.111.51.247: ,

No, la nacionalidad nunca ha sido necesariamente igual a la etnia. El hecho de que Polonia tenga menos etnias no polacas que otros países no cambia este hecho, como lo demuestra también el ejemplo de Estados Unidos. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 14:25 20 mar 2021 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Tesla

Hola Kiengir. Te equivocas cuando dices que Tesla no tenía ciudadanía húngara. Desde 1867, la ciudadanía húngara se concedió a todas las personas que vivían en la parte húngara del imperio. Aquí tienes algo al respecto [7]. dab (𒁳) lo escribió bastante bien. Tesla, que también vivía en la parte croata del imperio, recibió la "ciudadanía local" croata (ciudadanía tal vez no sea la palabra correcta, pero vi que se usaba en algunas fuentes). No hay pruebas de que tuviera ciudadanía austríaca. Lo que está mal escrito en el artículo y que repite mucha gente es que Tesla concedió la ciudadanía austríaca cuando obtuvo la estadounidense. Austro-Hungría, un imperio multiétnico y complejo, para el mundo exterior solo tenía ciudadanía "austriaca" para su gente. Esta pregunta es un poco demasiado compleja para lo que la gente quiere hacer en este artículo. 89.164.227.237 (discusión) 01:55, 29 de julio de 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Hola @89.164.227.237: No creo que me equivoque y si lo comprobaste con cuidado, hablé con Dbachmann sobre el tema. Tesla tenía ciudadanía austriaca, ya que los documentos oficiales prueban que renunció a ella antes de adquirir la ciudadanía estadounidense y es totalmente falso que Austria-Hungría "para el mundo exterior solo tenía ciudadanía "austriaca" para su gente". Hungría tenía su propia ciudadanía húngara, como siempre y nunca tuvo nada en común con los austriacos en este sentido, además de que la doble ciudadanía estaba prohibida. Hay circunstancias confusas que no se pueden decidir ahora, pero lo que es seguro es que cuando Tesla tenía ciudadanía austriaca, no podía tener húngara. Tampoco es evidente que en 1867 la ciudadanía húngara se otorgara automáticamente fuera de Hungría propiamente dicha (= sin Croacia), ya que la Ley L de 1879 declaró que la ciudadanía (állampolgárság) era una y la misma en todos los territorios de la Corona húngara (§1). Pero incluso si así fuera, Tesla tuvo que renunciar o perder esto para ser ciudadano austriaco, como lo era antes de su inmigración a los EE. UU. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 10:42 29 jul 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Intentaré encontrar la fuente donde leí todo esto que dije. 89.164.116.229 (discusión) 20:49 30 jul 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Aquí está la fuente. Lo siento, está en croata. Tiene muchas referencias a las leyes austrohúngaras, así que puedo señalar la referencia si desea investigar por sí mismo. [8] En la página 798 dice: "Después de 1867 existía una relación distinta con el Imperio... pero también una relación separada con Austria o Hungría... El argumento sobre la relación distinta con Austro-Hungría, que fue apoyado por autores croatas, apuntaba a la representación única austrohúngara en asuntos exteriores y al hecho de que el pueblo del Imperio ante los estados extranjeros ha aparecido como un solo sujeto político". Lo siento, pero el papel donde Tesla está renunciando a la ciudadanía austríaca es una fuente primaria. Uno tiene que ser muy cuidadoso al interpretar fuentes primarias y creo que llegó a la conclusión equivocada. Tiene razón en que se prohibieron las ciudadanías duales, pero eso fue solo para la ciudadanía "separada". Todas las personas del imperio tenían una ciudadanía "única" que los relacionaba con el Imperio en su conjunto y esa ciudadanía se usaba en asuntos exteriores. La cuestión de la ciudadanía en Austria-Hungría es mucho más compleja que esto. La fuente trata este tema en 35 páginas. Es muy interesante. Lo que es evidente es que todos aquí en Wikipedia están simplificando esa cuestión y relacionando las connotaciones que tiene la palabra ciudadanía hoy con las que tenía en Austria-Hungría en el siglo XIX. 89.164.132.7 (discusión) 15:52 31 jul 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@89.164.227.237: ,

Como ni siquiera puedo copiar y pegar esta fuente en el traductor de Google y, por desgracia, no sé croata, por mi cuenta no llegaré a mucho al respecto. Lo que usted cita no me contradice. Fuera, Austria-Hungría se consideraba en su conjunto, de todos modos era solo una monarquía conjunta, había una embajada extranjera austrohúngara, etc. Sin embargo, cuando entrabas en la embajada, inmediatamente tenías que elegir si te ocupabas de los asuntos austríacos o húngaros, y después todo era separado. Independientemente de la aceptación de la fuente primaria, mi conclusión no es errónea en el sentido de que en los asuntos exteriores se utilizaba la ciudadanía austríaca o húngara, respectivamente, nunca una ciudadanía conjunta, un ciudadano húngaro era ajeno a Austria, y viceversa, en todos los términos legales, pero ni siquiera en la época de Austria-Hungría. sino también antes. Sería interesante saber más sobre la posible "ciudadanía local" con respecto a Croacia, o saber, por ejemplo, antes de 1879 cómo eran los croatas (austriacos o húngaros). Lo que sí es cierto es que un ciudadano húngaro nunca ha aparecido como austriaco, ni dentro ni fuera de la República de Hungría, y si Tesla hubiera adquirido la ciudadanía húngara en algún momento, estoy convencido de que los húngaros lo sabrían. Si de alguna manera la obtuvo por ley, entonces en general se aplicaría a todos los ciudadanos de Croacia-Eslavonia. Sin embargo, una fuente primaria a veces es más válida que una secundaria, es decir, si se trata de un documento oficial donde se escribe Austria, entonces de ninguna manera puede relacionarse con Hungría, ya que el término Austria-Hungría era bien conocido y utilizado también en los EE. UU., si no fuera por la flagrante falacia de la administración estadounidense por error, escribiendo "Austria" en lugar de "Hungría" porque no saben, por ejemplo, qué estado está en África o en el Océano Pacífico y, de todos modos, no importa lo que escriban, solo tienen que rellenar el papel... ( KIENGIR (discusión) 20:42 31 jul 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Intentaré encontrar una fuente en inglés. Por lo que estoy leyendo en esta fuente, el trato con la ciudadanía en Austria-Hungría es mucho más complejo. No creo que Wikipedia pueda explicarlo completamente en un cuadro de información y una o pocas palabras. El término "ciudadanía" tal como lo conocemos hoy es muy diferente de lo que era en la Austria-Hungría del siglo XIX. Por eso estoy convencido de que alguien que lea el cuadro de información está siendo engañado, pero no sé cómo solucionarlo... por ahora parece que lo mejor es dejarlo como está. Si encuentro una fuente en inglés, te la enviaré. Saludos. 89.164.132.7 (discusión) 00:14 1 ago 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

[9] Aquí hay algo, aunque no se relaciona con el punto que planteé antes. Si te resulta útil... 89.164.132.7 (discusión) 00:39 1 ago 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Leí la fuente, no cambia ni refutaría mi argumentación o el hecho de que muchos resultados son posibles, sin embargo, independientemente de dónde vengas, entre el período anterior a 1867, cualquier persona podía obtener la ciudadanía de muchas maneras. Para aclarar esto, se necesita información individual sobre Tesla en particular. Hasta ahora, solo podemos probar que tenía ciudadanía nacional austríaca...( KIENGIR (discusión) 11:39 1 ago 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Notificación de enlace de desambiguación para el 5 de agosto

Hola. Gracias por tus recientes ediciones. Un proceso automatizado ha detectado que cuando recientemente editaste Charles Kraitsir , agregaste un enlace que apuntaba a la página de desambiguación Pest (verifica para confirmar | soluciona con el solucionador Dab). Dichos enlaces suelen ser incorrectos , ya que una página de desambiguación es simplemente una lista de temas no relacionados con títulos similares. (Lee las Preguntas frecuentes  • Únete a nosotros en el WikiProject DPL ).

Está bien eliminar este mensaje. Además, para dejar de recibir estos mensajes, siga estas instrucciones de cancelación de suscripción . Gracias, DPL bot ( discusión ) 09:16, 5 de agosto de 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

¿Eres del partido Jobbik?

¿Perteneces a otros húngaros que son irredentistas y chovinistas? Skyhighway ( discusión ) 14:19 27 sep 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Autopista del cielo : ,

No pertenezco a ningún partido ni a "otros húngaros que son irredentistas y chovinistas", la verdadera pregunta sería de dónde vienes, ya que en muchos casos estás introduciendo información engañosa de manera tendenciosa en varios artículos y estás ignorando muchas reglas de Wikipedia, ahora tu actividad puede describirse inequívocamente como guerra de ediciones. Recibirás una advertencia por eso.( KIENGIR (discusión) 17:45 27 sep 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

La realidad es que sólo presentas un punto de vista fuerte contra los rumanos. ¿Por qué odias tanto a Rumania? ¿O a tus países vecinos? ¿Por qué no puedes vivir en paz con los demás? Con los eslovacos tienes la misma actitud, y con los serbios también. ¿Por qué los odias tanto? Skyhighway ( discusión ) 17:48 27 sep 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Es muy cierto, hay que admitirlo: los húngaros odian básicamente a todas las naciones con las que comparten frontera. Skyhighway ( discusión ) 17:53 27 sep 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Autopista del cielo : ,

Disculpe, tengo que rechazar lo que dice porque no es cierto, usted fue quien hizo esos cambios que también podrían describirse como un punto de vista contra los escelenios/húngaros. No odio a los rumanos ni a ningún país vecino, y por favor, tenga cuidado con sus palabras y no diga cosas que no sean ciertas. El resto de sus preguntas tienen el mismo estilo, yo vivo en total paz con los demás y, de nuevo, no odio a nadie, ¡mejor deje de hacer acusaciones difamatorias! ¿Tenía actitudes? Disculpe, ¿a qué se refiere?

Además, tengo que rechazar de nuevo tu mala fe y tu difamación negativa dirigida a generalizar a los húngaros, con respecto a tu declaración "Los húngaros odian básicamente a todas las naciones con las que comparten frontera", y ni siquiera es verdad, mejor deberías investigar y verificar, por ejemplo, la relación de Rumania con sus países vecinos, y luego, por ejemplo, podrías hacer una comparación con Hungría en cuanto al nivel de relaciones y tal vez podrías ganar algo de objetividad en lugar de acusaciones exageradas. De todos modos, ¿deberías detener este comportamiento negativo? ( KIENGIR (discusión) 18:01 27 septiembre 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Deberías leer esto:

Los húngaros somos muy parecidos a los hobbits: somos gente trabajadora con poco conocimiento sobre el mundo exterior. Nos gusta comer y beber, cuidar nuestros pequeños jardines, pasar el rato en el bar y quejarnos de los defectos de los demás, y especialmente de los pecados capitales de los extranjeros. Nuestra política exterior es tradicionalmente torpe/inexistente, y normalmente consiste en elaborados argumentos históricos sobre lo especiales que somos y lo mucho que el mundo exterior nos debe por nuestras hazañas heroicas en el pasado lejano. Tenemos una historia espectacularmente colorida y trágica, llena de grandes visiones, luchas internas y fracasos, no es de extrañar que sintamos cierta afinidad con los escoceses, los irlandeses y los polacos. Los rumanos son especialmente sospechosos con nosotros: después de algunos siglos en los que los tratamos como mierda basándonos en nuestra mayor fuerza y ​​en algunas afirmaciones históricas claramente falsas, estamos realmente sorprendidos de que durante un siglo nos traten como mierda basándose en su mayor fuerza y ​​en algunas afirmaciones históricas claramente falsas. La gente corriente se deja engañar fácilmente para que canalice sus frustraciones generales hacia sus vecinos en lugar de hacia sus dirigentes corruptos e inmorales, y estas dos naciones son verdaderos campeones de este odio ignorante cuidadosamente generado y alimentado. Y eso es lo que se ve desde Polonia hasta los Balcanes: gente de buen carácter, de buen corazón, con un don único para disfrutar de la vida, llena de hospitalidad natural, explotada, engañada y obligada a odiarse por sus dirigentes. ¡Qué parecidos somos todos en Europa del Este! Es una notable hazaña de política e ignorancia el que hayamos luchado tantas guerras unos contra otros. ¿Nos daremos cuenta alguna vez de que todos somos hermanos y hermanas? El hombre prehistórico dio un paso gigantesco hacia adelante cuando descubrió que una comunidad puede incluir más de 15 personas. Nosotros, húngaros, rumanos y todos los demás, todavía estamos en la Edad Oscura hasta que demos el siguiente salto cognitivo y comprendamos que este planeta es una nación, una familia, un organismo. Unidos nos mantendremos; divididos caeremos.

Skyhighway ( discusión ) 18:03 27 sep 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Autopista del cielo : ,

Lo leí y contiene muchas cosas que son puntos de vista fuertes o que no son del todo ciertas, e incluso yo no sé por qué me lo enviaste ni qué conexión tiene con WP. No es verdad, es decir, que los húngaros tendrían "muy poco conocimiento del mundo", o que la política exterior sería inexistente. Las declaraciones como "los tratamos como una mierda basándonos en nuestra mayor fuerza y ​​algunas afirmaciones históricas claramente falsas" son nuevamente falsas y contienen grandes exageraciones con un lenguaje obsceno, etc. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 18:10 27 septiembre 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Si lo lees y esa es tu conclusión no me extraña lo que escribes, estás demasiado adoctrinado. Skyhighway ( discusión ) 18:13 27 sep 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

¿Lees esto? ¿ Magyarización ? Skyhighway ( discusión ) 18:14 27 sep 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Autopista del cielo : ,

Te advierto por última vez que tengas cuidado con tus palabras y tu estilo y dejes de hacer acusaciones de mala fe. NO estoy adoctrinado y conozco el artículo sobre magiarización porque tengo mucha experiencia con temas relacionados con Hungría y Rumanía, entre muchos otros. De todos modos, tus paneles me resultan bastante familiares, por lo general, este tipo de comportamiento lo llevan a cabo algunos "entusiastas" que acusan a la otra parte de lo que está haciendo en realidad y no están debidamente informados o instruidos en estos temas, discúlpame. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 18:22 27 septiembre 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Recién me di cuenta de tu doble moral. ¿Por qué intentas ocultar el número real de gitanos en Hungría? Tratas muy mal a tus minorías incluso en 2018. No has aprendido la lección. Cuando el número de gitanos que viven en Hungría supere el 30%, aprenderás. ¿Tienes mucha experiencia con temas relacionados con Hungría y Rumanía? Tú y tu familia podrían ser una familia magiarizada rumana de origen. Skyhighway ( discusión ) 18:48 27 septiembre 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Autopista del cielo : ,

No tengo dobles estándares y no "intenté ocultar" nada. Puedes leer en los registros de edición y en la página de discusión cuál fue el problema. Parece que aún no lo entendiste. Inicialmente ni siquiera eliminé tu edición, solo corregí su formato, pero no lo aceptaste, así que tuve que traerlo a la discusión ya que esto está de acuerdo con las reglas. ¿Qué lecciones no aprendí o quién? Lo siento, no se sabe si alguna minoría sería maltratada... Ni siquiera sé tu referencia en relación con la tasa demográfica del pueblo romaní, ¿eso sí lo sé? No se sabe que mi familia sea una "familia de origen magiarizado rumano". Deberías mantener algo de civilidad.( KIENGIR (discusión) 19:01 27 septiembre 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

El hecho es que Matei Corvin era mitad rumano y se le considera y realmente fue el rey húngaro más grande. Un ejemplo. Si puedes admitirlo. Skyhighway ( discusión ) 19:03 27 septiembre 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

( editar conflicto ) ( página de discusión acosador ) Teniendo en cuenta todas estas advertencias yo tendría cuidado al tirar piedras. - FlightTime ( canal abierto ) 19:11 27 sep 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Autopista del cielo : ,

No entiendo de nuevo cuál es el truco o realmente no entiendes algunas cosas, o tienes un problema de interpretación del lenguaje. Matías Corvino es considerado el rey más grande de Hungría, sobre el origen la mayoría de las fuentes afirman que su padre es de Valaquia, es decir, de ascendencia valaca, mientras que otras fuentes afirman que es más complejo con posibles orígenes cumanos o petchenegos, también de Valaquia. Algunos afirman que es de Transilvania.( KIENGIR (discusión) 19:09 27 sep 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

No. Qué fácil es rechazar la realidad. Era rumano. Qué fácil es decir que podría ser eso o aquello, pero no, era rumano y punto. Te faltan argumentos. Incluso si fuera rumano, ¿qué tienes en contra de este hecho? ¿No soportas la verdad? Quién escribió ese mensaje de arriba sobre Hu-Ro para detener la guerra tenía razón. Pero no puedes ver el futuro juntos. Por eso esa es una mentalidad del pasado del siglo XIX. No soportas que los rumanos estén en la UE y en la OTAN. Tienes que admitirlo. Skyhighway ( discusión ) 12:14 29 sep 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

PIB de Budapest

Hola Kienger, ¿qué te pasa? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Budapest&type=revision&diff=861354182&oldid=861341991 Esto no es bueno, por favor, explica cuánto es el PIB NOMINAL de Budapest y Hungría y cómo 141 mil millones salieron del fantástico mundo de mentiras de Jobbik. ¿Apoyas? ¿Por qué sigues viviendo en el pasado, Kienger? ¿El especialista? Skyhighway ( discusión ) 15:28 28 sep 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Lamentablemente, como veo con una comunicación inteligente, no puedo llegar a mucho. Rechazo tu estilo abusivo y de mala fe y veo que también tengo que ignorar tus "preguntas" abusivas. Además, ¡prejuiciar y mentir es un problema serio de civilidad! No apoyo ningún "fantástico mundo de mentiras de Jobbik", este contenido fuente no fue presentado por mí, pero al menos sé y trato de hacer lo mejor que puedo con respecto a las reglas de WP, que parece que aún no entiendes. Tienes que probar o demostrar cualquier cosa con respecto a un contenido que objetas, por cierto. Ya hay una discusión de la página de discusión relevante, por lo que no hay necesidad de escribir aquí. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 21:15, 28 de septiembre de 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

¿Cuánto es el PIB de Budapest? No lo evites. Skyhighway ( discusión ) 05:35 29 sep 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Notificación de enlace de desambiguación para el 13 de octubre

Un proceso automatizado ha detectado que cuando editaste recientemente Ucranianos en Hungría , agregaste un enlace que apunta a la página de desambiguación Rusyn (verifica para confirmar | corrige con el solucionador Dab).

( Instrucciones para darse de baja .) -- Bot DPL ( discusión ) 09:16 13 oct 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Reescribiendo el tema de la magiarización

Es una advertencia oficial para que no eliminen contenido de los artículos. Si no lo hacen, se solicitará la intervención del administrador. --PsichoPuzo ( discusión ) 11:24 28 oct 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@PsichoPuzo: , disculpe, usted es el que está iniciando una reescritura masiva sin consenso, sin embargo trato de integrar en los artículos esos valiosos agregados que tiene, pero también utiliza fuentes inapropiadas. Además, tenga en cuenta que con amenazas no se logra nada bueno, manténgase en la buena fe y apéguese a las reglas de nuestra comunidad, ya que los administradores harán lo mismo.( KIENGIR (discusión) 11:29 28 oct 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Notificación de enlace de desambiguación para el 9 de noviembre

Un proceso automatizado ha detectado que cuando editaste recientemente Carpathian Ruthenia , agregaste un enlace que apunta a la página de desambiguación Ruthenian (verificar para confirmar | corregir con el solucionador Dab).

( Instrucciones para darse de baja .) -- Bot DPL ( discusión ) 10:18 9 nov 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Notificación de enlace de desambiguación para el 16 de noviembre

Un proceso automatizado ha detectado que cuando editaste recientemente Carpathian Ruthenia , agregaste un enlace que apunta a la página de desambiguación Ottoman (verifica para confirmar | corrige con el solucionador Dab).

( Instrucciones para darse de baja .) -- Bot DPL ( discusión ) 09:14 16 nov 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Ad personam

Gracias por sus comentarios. Le pido amablemente que evite hacer comentarios ad personam, tanto positivos como negativos, en el futuro. Deberíamos concentrarnos en el tema. Nuevamente perdimos la posibilidad de persuadir a terceros para que se involucren en la discusión, porque nadie quiere leer oraciones largas y aburridas elogiando o criticando a otros editores. Borsoka ( discusión ) 01:37 17 nov 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Borsoka : ,​

Ya veo, sin embargo, que como tú personalmente propusiste algo, no se podría evitar no mencionarte. Si ese es tu deseo, trataría de evitar mencionar tu nombre, por cualquier medio, pero debes aceptar que en algunos casos no se puede evitar (en lo que respecta a otros editores, no puedo garantizarlo). No creo que mi comentario hubiera sido el más largo, aunque veo que el núcleo del tema propuesto se limitaba al último párrafo, pero tienes que ver también en ese tablón de anuncios de NPOV -donde no participé con ningún comentario- lo largo, aburrido, doloroso, tedioso, contundente y sin ningún resultado adecuado, incluso con la participación de terceros.

Por eso tuve que señalarle al editor (que continuamente te confronta y te "mata" el tiempo (y el de otros) de editar) que él es responsable de problemas fundamentales porque no desea ver/entender/cumplir con el funcionamiento de Wikipedia. No se dio cuenta de tu amabilidad, etiqueta wiki, generosidad y te ignora por completo, ni siquiera sabe qué es la construcción de consenso, etc.

También sería mejor para ti/nosotros tratar con alguien que conozca y respete las reglas, este también es el tema en sí, creo que, conmigo o sin mí, tampoco puedes concentrarte en el tema si otro editor no está al tanto de cómo funcionan las cosas aquí. Sin embargo, prometo que seré lo más breve posible en el futuro, y sabes que aprecio tu trabajo en Wikipedia.( KIENGIR (discusión) 12:04 17 nov 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Entiendo perfectamente tus motivos. Solo quería comentarte que ellos (?) están jugando este juego a propósito. Aprovechan cada posibilidad para hacer que la discusión sea cada vez más larga... Borsoka ( discusión ) 01:59 18 nov 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Mensaje para los votantes de la ArbCom en las elecciones de 2018

Hola, KIENGIR. La votación para las elecciones del Comité de Arbitraje de 2018 está abierta hasta las 23:59 del domingo 3 de diciembre. Todos los usuarios que registraron una cuenta antes del domingo 28 de octubre de 2018, realizaron al menos 150 ediciones en el espacio principal antes del jueves 1 de noviembre de 2018 y no están bloqueados actualmente pueden votar. Los usuarios con cuentas alternativas solo pueden votar una vez.

El Comité de Arbitraje es el panel de editores responsable de llevar a cabo el proceso de arbitraje de Wikipedia . Tiene la autoridad de imponer soluciones vinculantes a las disputas entre editores, principalmente en el caso de disputas de conducta graves que la comunidad no ha podido resolver. Esto incluye la autoridad para imponer prohibiciones de sitios , prohibiciones de temas , restricciones de edición y otras medidas necesarias para mantener nuestro entorno de edición. La política de arbitraje describe las funciones y responsabilidades del Comité con mayor detalle.

Si desea participar en las elecciones de 2018, revise los candidatos y envíe sus opciones en la página de votación . Entrega de mensajes de MediaWiki ( discusión ) 18:42 19 nov 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Alerta DS

Este es un mensaje estándar para notificar a los contribuyentes sobre una resolución administrativa vigente. No implica que haya problemas con sus contribuciones hasta la fecha.

Recientemente has mostrado interés en los Balcanes . Debido a las interrupciones que se han producido en el pasado en esta área temática, se ha puesto en vigor un conjunto de reglas más estrictas, denominadas sanciones discrecionales : cualquier administrador puede imponer sanciones a los editores que no sigan estrictamente las políticas de Wikipedia o cualquier restricción específica de la página al realizar modificaciones relacionadas con el tema.

Para obtener más información, consulte la guía sobre sanciones discrecionales y la decisión del Comité de Arbitraje aquí . Si tiene alguna pregunta o duda sobre qué ediciones son adecuadas, puede comentarlas conmigo o con cualquier otro editor.

-- Amanda (también conocida como DQ) 00:53, 27 de noviembre de 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Gracias por su ayuda con el artículo de Randolph L. Braham

Un cordial saludo, Robert Braham Shlishke ( discusión ) 21:54 28 nov 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

Shlishke , ¡gracias, claro! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 22:40 28 nov 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

NEO-HUNOS Kurultaj y proletarios

Entre la gente culta no hay turanistas ni creyentes hunos. Basta con ver el evento Kurultáj, el 99% de los visitantes son artesanos. En el antiguo húngaro (antes de 1945) el término era "aljanép", alsóbb néprétegek ("clases bajas" y "gente baja"). Esta es mi opinión sobre la prole de Europa del Este, la escribí hace muchos años: http://prolivilag.blogspot.com/ Pero hay un buen artículo sobre ellos aquí: http://demokrata.hu/velemeny/proli --Dwirm ( discusión ) 15:17 30 nov 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Dwirm: ,

Ya te respondí en la página de discusión de los hunos.( KIENGIR (discusión) 15:23 30 nov 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Javaslom Ablonczy Balázs (aki a téma kutatója az ELTÉ-n) Keletre magyar! do. könyvét. Kutatásaiból kiderült hogy a II.VH utáni turanizmus nagyon mássá alakult mint ami előtte volt. A modernebb napjainkban élő turanizmus (plane a rendszerváltás után) összefoglalja (az egyébbként egymásnak ellenmondó) Hun-Sumér-Szkíta-Pártus-Türk-Etruszk áltudományos meséket. A turáni fogalom a rendszerváltás után tiszta gyűjtőnévvé vált. A lényege a finnugor ellenesség, annak ellenére hogy 1945 előtt a finnugor elmélet teljesen része volt a turanizmusnak. Minden ami áltudományosság a magyarok eredetével kapcsolatban összesűrűsödött benne. Szerencsére már az ELTE-n (is) oktatják a hagymázas fantasy alternatív elméletekről a hallgatókat: http://finnugor.elte.hu/?q=alterism --Dwirm ( charla ) 18:54, 6 de diciembre de 2018 (UTC) [ respuesta ]

@Dwirm: ,

Ya publicaste este mensaje en la página de discusión de Huns, lo leí, ¿por qué lo repites? ( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:20 6 dic 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

No, no has respondido a este mensaje porque refuta tu opinión. Según todos los investigadores, la teoría del origen huno se fusionó con la versión moderna del turanismo en Hungría después de 1945. --Dwirm ( discusión ) 10:58 7 dic 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Dwirm: ,

No, es solo tu especulación, ya que no planteaste ninguna pregunta, solo enviaste información adicional, por lo que no necesito responder necesariamente (y de todos modos no veo ninguna refutación a mi opinión). Demostraste un punto de vista que es sostenido por algunos círculos, eso es todo. De todos modos, es marginal si una teoría del origen se fusiona más tarde con otras teorías o si tiene una historia, cuando específicamente no es este el tema. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 13:10 7 dic 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Te mostré una opinión académica de expertos, lo que no te gusta aceptar, no respetas a los académicos y su opinión, porque solo respetas tu opinión de profano. Entonces, ¿por qué quieres editar una enciclopedia? ¿Por qué no escribes un blog, que puede ser el centro de tu opinión de profano? --Dwirm ( discusión ) 19:00, 7 de diciembre de 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Dwirm: ,

Te sugiero que cambies rápidamente el tono y evites acusaciones infundadas como:

- "lo que no te gusta aceptar", "no respetas a los eruditos y su opinión", "porque solo respetas tu opinión de profano" -> esto no es cierto

En consecuencia, tus siguientes preguntas no pueden tomarse en serio (aunque te preocupes por los blogs, ¿no?). Estás generando prejuicios pesados, incluso acusando a otros de lo que no se dijo, no estás dispuesto a comprender adecuadamente lo que he escrito. No está claro si lo lees de nuevo, etc. (por otro lado, posiblemente tengas un problema de interpretación del inglés, porque no dije que después de 1945 algunas teorías no cambiaron o algo similar, etc. Solo dije que es marginal si no es el tema específico. De la misma manera que probablemente entendiste mal cuando escribí "es solo tu especulación", me referí a tu ridículo y falaz pensamiento "de no responder preguntas porque refutaría mi opinión") ( KIENGIR (discusión) 22:38, 7 de diciembre de 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Dije que la teoría de los hunos pertenece a la basura del turanismo posterior a la Segunda Guerra Mundial y proporcioné referencias. ¿Cuál fue tu respuesta? "No me gusta, así que no lo aceptaré". (A pesar de que no tienes ninguna prueba o referencia para tu opinión privada . ¿Cómo podemos llamar a este comportamiento? --Dwirm ( discusión ) 12:17 8 dic 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Dwirm: ,

No respondí de la forma que pusiste entre comillas. "Opinión privada" fue lo que dijiste sobre los "proletarios", una opinión realmente marginal. Mejor deberías cuidar tu comportamiento, ya que como podemos ver, es un poco problemático, no veo la razón para continuar esta discusión hasta que prefieras las difamaciones.( KIENGIR (discusión) 21:24 8 dic 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Conozco tu comportamiento desde que apareciste en la wiki inglesa. Tenías un problema notorio: nunca te preocupaste por las pruebas y las referencias, solo por tu opinión privada, no me extraña que haya mencionado a los proletarios de baja clase y a los descendientes de proletarios, porque es su mentalidad típica. --Dwirm ( discusión ) 08:37 9 dic 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Dwirm: ,

¿Cómo puedes conocerme, siendo un usuario novato que, según veo, recién me registré aquí en octubre de este año? De todos modos, te pido por última vez que dejes de mentir y hacer acusaciones tan ridículas como "Nunca te han importado las pruebas y las referencias, solo te preocupa tu opinión privada", es totalmente falso e incierto. De todos modos, para tu desgracia, no tengo ninguna conexión con los "proletarios" o su supuesta mentalidad. ¡Es hora de parar, estás llegando lejos! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 11:31 9 dic 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Los hunos y el turanismo turco pertenecen a la misma categoría. Véase el evento Kurultáj y las enseñanzas pseudohistóricas de Zsolt András Bíró (presidente de la Fundación Turan húngara). Kurultáj es un evento para personas de "identidad túrquica huna" organizado por la Fundación Turan húngara. Lea sobre él: https://index.hu/tudomany/tortenelem/2014/06/19/a_turani_nyitas_politikaja/

Sándor Klára: Nyelvrokonság és hunhagyomány (részletek) https://olvassbele.com/2012/11/26/sandor-klara-nyelvrokonsag-es-hunhagyomany-reszletek/

"A turániság gondolata persze gyorsan elérte a magyar közgondolkodást, már csak azért is, mert a hun rokonságot komolyan már senki nem képviselte, azt helyettesítő törököt sem lehetett már olyan lelkesedéssel hirdetni, mint akár egy-k ét évtizeddel korábban, a turáni dobozába viszont lényegében mindent be lehetett tuszkolni a finnugor mellé, törököt, japánt, Hunt és szkítát (…)"--Dwirm ( charla ) 13:49, 13 de diciembre de 2018. (UTC) [ responder ]

@Dwirm: ,

No respondiste a mi pregunta. El hecho de que algunos círculos mezclen las dos cosas no significa necesariamente que sean iguales, ¡y no lo mezcles con mi aceptación personal ni lo uses mal! Entiendo que hay quienes lo tratan de esa manera como dices. Aunque estoy totalmente en contra de cualquier identidad "húnico-turca", ya que es similar a esa locura de que los panturquistas digan incluso haber inventado el término falso "Hunntürkei" y traten de corromper no solo a Atila, sino también al Imperio huno y a casi todas las principales culturas antiguas para que sean turcas. ¡Cerremos el tema de una vez! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 18:29 13 dic 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Comentario de Scf1985

El usuario por error puso su mensaje en mi página de usuario, copiado aquí:

"Hola, Kiengir. No sé si así es como se habla con la gente de aquí, pero en cuanto a la cuestión de la nacionalidad de Monica Seles, ella jugó para Yugoslavia. Sin embargo, Yugoslavia es un país extinto, como deberías saber. Por lo tanto, ella es serbia, no yugoslava".

Mi respuesta:

@Scf1985: ,

Lamentablemente, su argumentación no se sostiene de alguna manera, ya que ella es una tenista retirada y sus récords siempre se asignan históricamente al país para el que jugó y existió en ese momento, no se puede proyectar a las condiciones modernas, ya que nunca se hace tan bien aquí en Wikipedia. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 17:25 9 dic 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

@Scf1985:

El usuario volvió a responder en mi página de usuario, en lugar de en la página de discusión, copió nuevamente aquí:

"Mi argumento es 100% válido, porque Yugoslavia ya no es un país. ¿Por qué no referirse a ella como una 'jugadora de tenis retirada nacida en Yugoslavia' o 'una jugadora de tenis retirada con ciudadanía estadounidense/húngara que representó a los Estados Unidos y la República Federativa de Yugoslavia durante su carrera'? Al referirse a ella como yugoslava, están engañando a la gente para que crea que 'yugoslava' sigue siendo una nacionalidad, lo cual es incorrecto desde el punto de vista fáctico".

Mi respuesta:

No, tu argumentación es problemática, ya que ella representaba a Yugoslavia, era una tenista yugoslava. ¿Yugoslava sería hoy también una nacionalidad? Lo dudo. En cuanto a otras posibles reformulaciones, busca consenso en la página de discusión del artículo. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:10 9 dic 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Con suerte, finalmente he aprendido a hablar contigo correctamente aquí, aunque no es algo tan sencillo.

¿Por qué mi argumento es problemático? Yugoslavia está extinta de hecho, por lo tanto, nadie puede ser considerado yugoslavo. Sí, ella representaba a Yugoslavia, y si sientes la necesidad de señalarlo, está bien, pero te refieres a ella como "yugoslava" en tiempo presente, lo cual es engañoso e incorrecto. Sus estadísticas que representan a la ex República Federativa de Yugoslavia se indican en otra parte de su página de Wiki y he tratado de encontrar un punto medio contigo cambiando su edición a "estadounidense y nacida en Yugoslavia", que es más esclarecedor, pero pareces absolutamente decidido a que se refieran a ella como "estadounidense y yugoslava" como si fuera en tiempo presente. No sé si estás amargado porque tu antiguo país se ha disuelto en pequeños pedazos, y esta es tu manera de aferrarte a cualquier nostalgia yugoslava, pero tu redacción es incorrecta. Voy a hacer una edición final con la esperanza de que finalmente podamos acordar una redacción con la que ambos estemos de acuerdo, pero no voy a hacer más modificaciones después de esto porque tengo una vida. Descanse en paz Yugoslavia.

@Scf1985: ,

Por favor, firma tu comentario también.

1. No tengo ningún sentimiento personal de participación hacia esta edición, ya que no tengo ningún sentimiento de amargura, ni nostalgia ni nada por el estilo.

2. Mi redacción no es incorrecta -y de todos modos no fue mi redacción, estaba antes-, por otro lado, en Wikipedia identificamos la nacionalidad deportiva en la parte superior primero, y esa fue yugoslava y estadounidense.

3. Te sugiero que no realices más cambios al artículo sin llegar a un consenso en la página de discusión del artículo.

Saludos.( KIENGIR (discusión) 10:25 10 dic 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

¿Aún insistes en que Monica Seles es yugoslava en tiempo presente? ¿Y obviamente insistes en ello? O eres un idiota de 24 quilates o tienes problemas mentales — Comentario anterior sin firmar agregado por Scf1985 ( discusión • contribuciones ) 09:06, 17 de diciembre de 2018 (UTC) [ responder ]

No sé de qué estás hablando, por favor evita ataques personales en el futuro. Gracias. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:30 17 dic 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Rumania

De acuerdo, estoy de acuerdo con Michael the Brave. Solo espero que tus ediciones sean objetivas y neutrales tanto para los húngaros como para los rumanos. Esta es la diferencia entre un simple usuario y un historiador. Incluso si no estás de acuerdo con algunas cosas, no deberías eliminar el punto de vista universal.

@ Cristina Neagu : ,

Claro, como siempre, me esfuerzo por lograr la máxima precisión y la máxima neutralidad, pero siéntete libre de consultarlo cuando quieras. Saludos.( KIENGIR (discusión) 17:32 18 dic 2018 (UTC)) [ responder ]

¡Qué alegría!

Bandera del ejército de Austria-Hungría

Hola, la marina usó la bandera de guerra roja-blanca-roja, pero el ejército usó esta bandera --->
Entonces no sé qué pasa con esa situación... ¿Pero no se usaría entonces la "bandera nacional" en lugar de la bandera civil ? Quiero decir, usamos la bandera nacional para todos los demás países. El Imperio alemán usa su bandera y no la Reichskriegsflagge (fuera del contexto naval, como la bandera naval que se usa ahora para AH), por ejemplo.
Por cierto, actualicé mi ejemplo de sandbox para usar ambos escudos, ¿opiniones ? -- Havsjö ( discusión ) 23:40 4 feb 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Havsjö :,​

1. ¿Hay alguna otra aprobación de que el ejército haya usado esta bandera (¿significaría eso "Estandarte Imperial (?)"? Intenté hacer clic en la fuente que se muestra en los detalles de la imagen, pero la URL estaba en blanco...)

2. El cuadro de información en tu sandbox se ve bien :) (con respecto a la llamada "bandera nacional", reacciono en la página de discusión del artículo.( KIENGIR (discusión) 00:01 5 feb 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ah%5E.html aquí hay algo de información al respecto, también decía en la sección de banderas en la página de AH que " los regimientos del ejército kuk llevaban las banderas de doble águila que habían usado antes de 1867, ya que tenían una larga historia en muchos casos ". La bandera roja-blanca-roja es una insignia naval/de guerra, no una "bandera de guerra" completa como la de la República Social Italiana -- Havsjö ( discusión ) 00:11 5 feb 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Havsjö :,​

Veo que el artículo vinculado no dice explícitamente que también se usó en tiempos de la Guerra Austro-Húngara, aunque con respecto a la descripción que usted citó del artículo, también podría ser cierto... Tiendo a aceptar esto, pero entonces también deberíamos en cualquier contexto militar usar consistentemente junto a él la "Insignia naval 1786-1918" y la "Insignia marítima real húngara", quiero decir, si en el artículo correspondiente se especifica en algún lugar o el artículo en sí se denota para batallas estrictamente navales o batallas húngaras, se deben usar los dos últimos en lugar del nuevo que presentó.( KIENGIR (discusión) 00:28 5 feb 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

El caso es que los países (y especialmente los países europeos) en aquellos tiempos a menudo tenían una insignia naval, que era casi tratada al mismo nivel que la "bandera nacional" (un concepto que tampoco era tan común en ese momento, ya que las banderas no siempre estaban tan "definidas" como hoy). Un buen ejemplo de esto es el Imperio ruso , con sus muchas banderas desordenadas (rojo-blanco-azul, blanco-amarillo-negro, el amarillo imperial con el pájaro negro) y el uso muy común de su bandera naval (blanca con una X azul) (un lío más ampliado en la versión rusa de esa página y http://www.vexillographia.ru/russia/index.htm (la versión rusa de la misma, de todos modos)). De todos modos, la bandera naval de AH (como la Reichkriegsflagge de Alemania) estaba bastante definida como las banderas de sus armadas, mientras que el ejército no tenía un equivalente de bandera de guerra tan "definitivo" , sino que usaba estandartes más heráldicos como el de la derecha. (es decir, no es como la bandera de la República Social Italiana , que tenía una clara variante regular y de guerra. Por lo tanto, no creo que las banderas del ejército deban incluirse entre las banderas civiles/navales en la página de AH, ¿quizás en una sección separada debajo de las banderas austríaca/húngara/croata sería apropiado? De todos modos, también puedes ver en la página de discusión de AH mis palabras sobre la bandera nacional/civil con respecto a temas militares.-- Havsjö ( discusión ) 00:39, 5 de febrero de 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Havsjö :,​

Pensé que querías usar la bandera que presentaste aquí en lugar de la bandera civil utilizada en las páginas de guerra que involucran a AH, ¿no es así? ( KIENGIR (discusión) 00:47 5 feb 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

En realidad no, la bandera de los ejércitos de la Europa del siglo XIX suele ser muy complicada y no existe una "bandera única" para el ejército. Expliqué un poco más en la página de discusión de AH. ¡Y probablemente deberíamos seguir hablando allí para evitar un gran lío de 2 conversaciones, mi error!)-- Havsjö ( discusión ) 01:04 5 feb 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Ejecución del arbitraje

Por favor, vea esta solicitud de AE . Cealicuca ( discusión ) 16:15 8 feb 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Creo que deberías haber empleado tu tiempo de una manera más valiosa. Has sacado a colación casos antiguos que ya se discutieron y se resolvieron, ya sea que hayan tenido un resultado bueno o malo para mí, siempre he asumido la responsabilidad y he aprendido de ellos, ya que mis objetivos son benévolos para construir una enciclopedia mejor y más precisa con la mejor información válida posible. Pero la forma en que haces las cosas huele a un objetivo claramente malévolo, como se hace evidente de forma recurrente en tu solicitud. Aunque nunca te hice nada malo, al contrario, es decir, cuando me cuestionaste una vez más sobre la oración errónea sobre los nombres de los ríos y las etimologías, incluso el nominador original estuvo de acuerdo y reconoció el error y el hecho de que tenía toda la razón y precisión, al mismo tiempo que nunca abusé de ninguna edición tuya que estuviera en orden. ¡Gran decepción! ( KIENGIR (discusión) 20:40 8 feb 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Problema de derechos de autor enHúngaros estadounidenses

El contenido que has añadido al artículo anterior parece haber sido copiado de http://immigrationtounitedstates.org/560-hungarian-immigrants.html. Copiar texto directamente de una fuente es una violación de la política de derechos de autor de Wikipedia . Lamentablemente, por razones de derechos de autor, el contenido tuvo que ser eliminado. Independientemente del problema de derechos de autor, esa página web no parece ser una fuente académica confiable. El contenido que añadas a Wikipedia debe estar escrito con tus propias palabras. Deja un mensaje en mi página de discusión si tienes alguna pregunta. — Diannaa  🍁  ( discusión ) 13:39, 4 de marzo de 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Respuesta

¡He vuelto! -- T*U ( discusión ) 20:34 3 abr 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Gracias por las ediciones de Braham y por mirar

Gracias por editar a Braham y por mirar, como siempre. Shlishke

PD: agregué esto por accidente como una edición, ahora te da más trabajo eliminarlo. :( *suspiro* Shlishke ( discusión ) 17:46, 7 de abril de 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Nombre o identidad original de Svatopluk

Tengo curiosidad por saber qué es lo que no está claro sobre el nombre original de Svatopluk o su identidad. El nombre, registrado en numerosas fuentes latinas y eslavas antiguas, es un tipo de nombre contemporáneo estándar y es fácilmente comprensible. -- Ditinili ( discusión ) 07:40 17 abr 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Ditinili : , una vez me encontré con un trabajo interesante que afirmaba algo diferente de lo que se cree o se acepta mayoritariamente, al igual que otras cosas a las que me referí en este período. No significaba un cuestionamiento completo, sino más bien una explicación alternativa y causal de los eventos.( KIENGIR (discusión) 09:11 17 abr 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

¿Podrías decirme el nombre de la obra? El nombre es absolutamente transparente: el nombre compuesto eslavo (típico de las élites eslavas) Svętě-pъlkъ, ambas partes son lexemas eslavos comunes, desnasalizados y vocalizados como Svatopluk, Svätopluk, Sviatopluk por cambios bien conocidos en las lenguas eslavas. -- Ditinili ( discusión ) 10:39 17 abr 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Ditinili :,​​

No por ahora. En cuanto me ocupe de comprobar el problema de nuevo (tengo que buscar un libro), te lo haré saber.( KIENGIR (discusión) 20:11 17 abr 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Kiengir, si lees algún libro de calidad desconocida y no recuerdas el nombre y/o el autor entonces no deberías hacer referencias misteriosas a esa "investigación".-- Ditinili ( discusión ) 04:02 18 abr 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Ditinili : hay demasiados "si" conjuntivos y suposiciones prejudiciales en tu oración. Con suerte, algún día podremos aclarar el asunto. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 09:07 18 abr 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Vale. Si no consigues aclarar tu comentario y tampoco recuerdas la fuente, podemos cerrar el tema. -- Ditinili ( discusión ) 12:01 18 abr 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Ditinili : es solo una "incapacidad" temporal, prácticamente de más de mil páginas de material leído no puedo recordar todo al instante. Cuando tenga la oportunidad, te lo haré saber.( KIENGIR (discusión) 12:11 18 abr 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Tal vez puedas resumir la idea principal... La teoría de que el nombre original de Svatopluk no era Svatopluk suena interesante. -- Ditinili ( discusión ) 12:59 18 abr 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Ditinili : Lamentablemente no puedo recordar esa idea principal ahora, la leí hace más años...( KIENGIR (discusión) 14:34 18 abr 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Sin comentarios. -- Ditinili ( discusión ) 14:56 18 abr 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Vale. Si fuera una máquina con una memoria gigantesca, podría recordarlo rápidamente. Hasta que tenga solo capacidades humanas. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 15:21 18 abr 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

No es necesario ser una máquina, por otro lado, no es razonable referirse a una teoría de la que no se conoce la fuente, el autor o de qué trata, -- Ditinili ( discusión ) 05:33 20 abr 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Ditinili : entiendo tu motivo, es mejor cuando toda la información está presente a la vez, aunque la falta de esos detalles no significa necesariamente que no haya un problema, ya que de manera general conocemos controversias en algunos campos o líneas de tiempo. Disculpa las molestias, estaría ansioso por conocer los detalles de manera similar.( KIENGIR (discusión) 10:35 20 abr 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

ARTICULO SOBRE TURANISMO

¿Por qué has restaurado las partes del texto que no tienen relación con la opresión de los Habsburgo? No tiene nada que ver con el turanismo, ya que estos duros intentos de germanización y centralización neoabsolutista también se vieron forzados en territorios no húngaros (polacos, italianos, checos, etc.). Por lo tanto, no tiene nada que ver con teorías lingüísticas como el turanismo. Sería mejor trasladarlo al artículo sobre germanización, tal vez como sección "Germanización en el Reino de Hungría". -- Draguler ( discusión ) 08:51, 15 de mayo de 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Draguller : ,​

Así que, para ser más detallado, solo restauré una pequeña parte del contenido original, que enfatizaba que los Habsburgo tuvieron una influencia en ese período -que no se puede ignorar ni negar-, sin entrar en detalles ni en el debate sobre en qué grado y cuánto afectaría necesariamente a cualquier teoría. No deberíamos ignorarlo por completo, puede ser parte de cualquier artículo que discuta cualquier tema similar o relevante en el contexto. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 09:22 15 may 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

No hay eruditos en Hungría que se tomen en serio la teoría de la conspiración de los Habsburgo contra el parentesco lingüístico turco, no hay pruebas de ello, ni siquiera el texto eliminado podría probarlo, a pesar de que el escritor intentó apoyar su teoría de la conspiración, que fue inventada solo en la década de 1970. Wikipedia es una enciclopedia, existe metapedia org para fantasías y teorías de la conspiración. Cada teoría pseudocientífica moderna (ya sea relacionada con la ciencia y la tecnología o la historia) también contiene una teoría de la conspiración para gente crédula menos educada. Deben abordar la pregunta, ¿por qué los verdaderos eruditos (profesores universitarios e investigadores académicos/científicos) rechazan sus fantásticas teorías? Su respuesta habitual puede tener dos tipos. Primer tipo (A): Los eruditos/científicos son todos estúpidos a nivel mundial, no saben lo que hacen. (muy pocas personas creen en esa respuesta.) Segundo tipo (B): Los científicos y eruditos globalmente conspiraron contra la "verdad", por varias razones (son malvados... antihúngaros, anti-XXXX, o fueron sobornados (globalmente) por los judíos, los masones, etc...

Las partes eliminadas pertenecen al razonamiento de tipo B. -- Draguler ( discusión ) 12:19 15 may 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Draguller : ,​

Lo que queda es de buena fuente (incluidas fuentes académicas y de calidad) y tiene en su mayoría afirmaciones sólidas y generales), así que para cualquier otra afirmación, diríjase a Wikiproject Hungría; involucrar a más personas puede resultar en una retroalimentación más amplia. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 18:39 15 may 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Incorrecto. En tal caso, no importa si se citan fuentes o no, es un tema claramente fuera de tema, y ​​él intenta usar referencias fuera de tema para dar la impresión de que la conspiración de los Habsburgo es cierta. Ninguna de sus propias fuentes respalda la conspiración de los Habsburgo. Puedo escribir innumerables oraciones bien citadas (y fuera de tema) en cualquier artículo. Como dije, pertenece al artículo sobre la germanización o la historia húngara del siglo XIX. -- Draguler ( discusión ) 18:54, 15 de mayo de 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Draguller : ,​

Como pedí antes, por favor lleven esto a Wikiproject Hungría y logren un consenso allí. Gracias.( KIENGIR (discusión) 18:59 15 may 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Notificación de enlace de desambiguación para el 24 de mayo

Hola. Gracias por tus ediciones recientes. Un proceso automatizado ha detectado que cuando editaste recientemente Palatine of Hungary , agregaste un enlace que apunta a la página de desambiguación Kingdom of Croatia (verifica para confirmar | corrige con el solucionador Dab). Estos enlaces suelen ser incorrectos , ya que una página de desambiguación es simplemente una lista de temas no relacionados con títulos similares. (Lee las Preguntas frecuentes  • Únete a nosotros en el WikiProject DPL .)

Está bien eliminar este mensaje. Además, para dejar de recibir estos mensajes, siga estas instrucciones de cancelación de suscripción . Gracias, DPL bot ( discusión ) 09:52, 24 de mayo de 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Centelleo

Hola, vi tus reversiones en Khazars, ¿has considerado usar Twinkle? Debería ser útil. Si necesitas ayuda para usarlo, házmelo saber. Saludos cordiales. ---Wikaviani ^{(discusión) (contribuciones)} 22:11 2 jun 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@Wikaviani : Hola, bueno, hace tiempo que consideré el tema, en lugar de hacer un clic para deshacer ediciones que no son apropiadas/útiles, terminé aplicando una vez los derechos de reversión, en lugar de tener una herramienta complementaria. Ya tengo una lista de seguimiento con más de mil páginas, pero tuve un poco de tiempo para ocuparme de la aplicación. Si tienes alguna otra recomendación, dímelo, gracias. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 19:46, 3 de junio de 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Gracias por tomarte el tiempo de leerme y responderme. Parece que ya estás al tanto de muchas cosas en Wiki. Cuídate. ---Wikaviani ^{(discusión) (contribuciones)} 19:50 3 jun 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Libertad austriaca

Hola Kiengir, ¿te importaría revisar el historial de edición de R. Saringer y deshacer el daño que ha causado? Veo que debes ser un usuario para deshacer múltiples ediciones y él hizo muchas. También hay una IP que también fue bloqueada. Gracias. Ermenrich ( discusión )

@ Ermenrich : , hecho. En cuanto al artículo de Sonja Veselinović , no hice nada, no pude decidir de inmediato qué debería restaurar, ya que desde el principio fue editado y creado principalmente por el usuario correspondiente. Por lo tanto, este artículo lo puede revisar usted mismo, el resto lo hice yo. Gracias( KIENGIR (discusión) 15:19 9 jul 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

El reverso

Fue un error, lo siento -- Shrike ( discusión ) 15:00 12 jul 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Por supuesto.( KIENGIR (discusión) 17:00 12 jul 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Cambio revertido

¡Hola KIENGIR!

Vi que deshiciste mi modificación aquí: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:KIENGIR/Proto-Indo-Europeans#Andronovo

El artículo parece afirmar claramente que la mayoría tenían ojos claros y que se analizaron 25 y no 26 especímenes: "...la tipificación de un SNP asociado al color de ojos (rs12913832) muestra que al menos el 60% (15/25) de los especímenes siberianos tenían ojos azules (o verdes)...".

Enlace al artículo: https://www.podgorski.com/main/assets/documents/Keyser_2009.pdf

¡Gracias por su atención! Ferdinand Karl (discusión) 13:03 14 jul 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

¡Gracias a ti también!( KIENGIR (discusión) 18:35 14 jul 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Ediciones en el artículo Art Nouveau

Hola,

Usted participó en la reversión de los cambios del artículo Art Nouveau. Para discutir públicamente las razones por las que creé, usted revirtió y otro usuario desestimó los cambios que creé en la sección de la página de discusión: Discusión:Art_Nouveau#Enlaces_a_páginas_de_Wikis_en_otro_idioma

Por favor, añade tu opinión si tienes algo que añadir a la posición mía ya descrita. Improver 03 04 ( discusión ) 17:29 16 jul 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Abrí el debate sobre la estructura de las subsecciones de Secesión y te invito a participar en Talk:Art_Nouveau (ya que participaste en la edición de estas subsecciones). Improver 03 04 ( discusión ) 14:23 26 ago 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Julio de 2019

Hola, soy el Sr. Guye . Quería informarle que uno o más enlaces externos que agregó a Turul se eliminaron porque parecían ser inapropiados para una enciclopedia. Si cree que cometí un error o si tiene alguna pregunta, puede dejarme un mensaje en mi página de discusión o echar un vistazo a nuestras pautas sobre enlaces. Gracias.  —  Sr. Guye  ( discusión ) ( contribuciones ) 05:31 25 jul 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Sr. Guye : ,

No agregué ningún enlace al artículo, solo revertí una edición en negrita. No conocía la información que presentaste en el registro de edición. Gracias.( KIENGIR (discusión) 06:56 25 jul 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Sesgo enEuropa central

Parece que publicas sobre un tema que parece sesgado en lugar de tener un punto de vista neutral. En la página Europa central , eliminaste las modificaciones que hice con respecto al Índice de globalización humana actualizado, el Índice de prosperidad de Legatum y el Índice de percepción de la corrupción . Además, eliminaste los estados bálticos , que son parte de Mitteleuropa , pero dejas deliberadamente estados balcánicos como Croacia y Serbia . Luego me dices que se debe llegar a un consenso, pero no se llegó a ningún consenso en cuanto a la incorporación de Croacia y Serbia en la definición en primer lugar. O los estados bálticos (Letonia, Lituania y Estonia) y los dos estados balcánicos - Serbia y Croacia - permanecen en la definición, o por defecto todos deben ser eliminados. No puedes elegir tus propias definiciones en función de tu propia opinión personal. Así no es como funciona Wikipedia. Por favor, lleva tus inquietudes, preguntas, etc. a la página de discusión en lugar de revertir mis ediciones de buena fe y participar en un sesgo unilateral. Gracias. - 185.41.130.3 ( discusión ) 13:03 29 jul 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Por favor, deja de hacer acusaciones infundadas, no hay "parcialidad unilateral/selección de opiniones personales", hay políticas de WP (WP:BRD, WP:CONSENSUS) que ignoras sistemáticamente (por lo tanto, no deberías hacer tales declaraciones, sabrías cómo funciona WP), habla de esos detalles con ese usuario que también te revirtió dos veces. También advertirme de entrar a la página de discusión no puede tomarse en serio, ya que fui yo quien te pidió que lo hicieras, e inmediatamente entré allí. Mi reversión fue legal, según BRD. Mencionar WP:AGF significa que al menos deberías seguir las políticas que ofreces a otros dos, ya que tú también perjudicaste este principio con muchas acusaciones perjudiciales e inapropiadas contra mí. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 18:24 29 jul 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Aviso de discusión en el tablón de anuncios de Warring

Hola. Este mensaje se envía para informarte de que actualmente hay una discusión que te involucra en Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de administradores/Guerra de ediciones sobre una posible violación de la política de Wikipedia sobre guerra de ediciones . Gracias. - 185.41.130.3 ( discusión ) 13:21 29 jul 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Véase Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de administradores/Editar warring#Usuario:KIENGIR denunciado por 185.41.130.3 (Resultado: ) . Gracias, EdJohnston ( discusión ) 15:12 29 jul 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

G. Kubátov

Has deshecho mi edición (sobre su origen azerbaiyano). He encontrado que está aquí: https://prabook.com/web/gabor.kubatov/2325420. Si esta es una fuente fiable, la añadiré al artículo. También me pareció evidente que "Kubatov" no es un apellido húngaro (en la wiki azerbaiyana también se indica que es de sus orígenes. Lamentablemente, no hay ningún enlace). Pero si esta fuente no se considera fiable, lo dejaré como tú lo has hecho. Con mis mejores deseos, -- Noel baran ( discusión ) 05:27 31 jul 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

PD: También aquí, aunque quizás no sea demasiado serio: https://hvg.hu/velemeny.nyuzsog/20151110_Legyen_itt_is_Kanada

Libertad austriaca

He iniciado una [investigación]. De todas formas, te sugiero que te pongas en contacto con un administrador, ya que eso suele acelerar las cosas. -- Ermenrich ( discusión ) 14:17 12 ago 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

La IP está bloqueada desde hace una semana. Al parecer no hacen checkusers en las IP, pero sí que te dan una respuesta más rápida que cuando no la pides. Veremos si vuelve. -- Ermenrich ( discusión ) 15:57 12 ago 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Tengo una pregunta

Saludos. He notado que eres mi principal colaborador en el trabajo sobre la Batalla de Transilvania. Gracias por tu ayuda. Sin embargo, dado que pareces estar siguiendo de cerca mi progreso, tengo una pregunta. ¿A quién debería poner primero en el cuadro de información: Alemania o Austria-Hungría? Dos de los tres ejércitos rumanos fueron derrotados por Alemania, pero los austrohúngaros aparentemente tenían la mayor cantidad de tropas entre las dos Potencias Centrales. Entonces, ¿quién es el primero en el cuadro de información: el que más hizo o el que tenía la mayor cantidad de tropas? Personalmente, me inclino por lo primero, por eso puse a Alemania primero. Transylvania1916 ( discusión ) 07:52, 15 de agosto de 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Hola @ Transylvania1916 : ,

Claro, con mucho gusto. Bueno, en cuanto a tu pregunta, enumeraste dos aspectos como se puede ver... ahora enumero uno subjetivo -como los dos tuyos- que el Reino de Rumania atacó a Hungría a primera vista, es decir, a Austria-Hungría (por supuesto, con este movimiento, también a las Potencias Centrales), por lo que también se puede poner en primer lugar... sin embargo, si deseamos ignorar todo punto de vista subjetivo posible, entonces lo más neutral es -y esto resuelve, así como muchos otros problemas- aplicar el orden alfabético, de modo que nadie pueda acusarnos de favorecer a ningún partido por ningún motivo. Saludos( KIENGIR (discusión) 21:27 15 ago 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Bien, entonces, puse a Austria-Hungría primero en el cuadro de información, pero en la sección de comandantes dejé primero a Alemania. Porque, como escribí y cité en la sección "Consecuencias", eran los alemanes quienes tenían el mando general. En cualquier caso, casi he terminado con el artículo. Si encuentro más cosas interesantes relacionadas, las agregaré la próxima semana. Lamentablemente, no podré editar durante el fin de semana. Por lo tanto, les pido: por favor muestren este artículo a revisores pares, correctores ortográficos y similares, porque quiero que sea lo mejor posible y no creo que pueda lograrlo por mí mismo, especialmente dada mi falta de experiencia en la Wiki. Aunque Google Books solo ofrece una vista previa del libro principal que usé, encontré medios para modificarlo en gran medida. Usando diferentes navegadores y diferentes dispositivos, he logrado obtener toda la información sobre la Batalla de Transilvania, aparte de unas pocas páginas relacionadas con la Batalla de Brasov y la última página, la página 126. Si se mencionan bajas generales o alguna fecha oficial del final de la batalla, debería estar ahí, fuera de mi alcance. Otra razón más para contactar a otros usuarios, para que tal vez puedan completar el artículo además de revisarlo. Creé mi cuenta después de asegurarme de que podía obtener el 90% de la información. Terminé con el artículo en general, por favor, difúndanlo a otros usuarios para que podamos obtener ayuda adicional. Saludos. Transylvania1916 ( discusión ) 04:26, 16 de agosto de 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Transylvania1916 : ,

Ok, lo haré, saludos cordiales.( KIENGIR (discusión) 22:31 16 ago 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Dado que no existe tal cosa como una "raza aria", creo que el prólogo debería dejarlo claro.

Hola, me preocupa mucho que la entrada sobre la raza aria respalde (quizás sin intención) la falsa afirmación de que existe algo así como una "raza aria".

Esto es lo que otra página Wiki tiene que decir sobre el tema de la raza.

"Una raza es una agrupación de seres humanos basada en cualidades físicas o sociales compartidas en categorías que la sociedad generalmente considera distintas.[1] El término se utilizó primero para referirse a hablantes de un idioma común y luego para denotar afiliaciones nacionales. Hacia el siglo XVII, el término comenzó a referirse a rasgos físicos (fenotípicos). Los estudios modernos consideran la raza como una construcción social, una identidad que se asigna en función de reglas establecidas por la sociedad. Si bien se basa parcialmente en similitudes físicas dentro de los grupos, la raza no es una cualidad física o biológica inherente.[1][2]

"Las concepciones sociales y las agrupaciones de razas varían con el tiempo, lo que implica taxonomías populares[3] que definen tipos esenciales de individuos en función de rasgos percibidos. Los científicos consideran que el esencialismo biológico es obsoleto[4] y, en general, desalientan las explicaciones raciales para la diferenciación colectiva tanto en rasgos físicos como conductuales.[5][6][7][8][9]

Tal como está ahora, la página podría haber sido escrita por un supremacista blanco. Estoy seguro de que todos queremos evitar esa impresión. Dado que no existe nada parecido a una "raza aria", creo que el encabezado debería dejarlo claro.

Chip.berlet ( discusión ) 02:00 17 ago 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ Chip.berlet : ,

Hola, no deberías haberte preocupado, revisé otros artículos sobre razas (¿se considerarán obsoletos o no?) y no vi que lo hayas presentado. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 20:34 17 ago 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Utilizando a los nazis como fuente de la historia de Polonia

Por favor, no vuelvan a publicar trabajos basados ​​en publicaciones nazis conocidas. Esto simplemente no es aceptable en Wikipedia, usted es libre de utilizar otras fuentes, pero Kuhn fue un conocido activista nazi que abogó por el genocidio de los polacos; sus obras no son confiables. --MyMoloboaccount ( discusión ) 21:59, 18 de agosto de 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Mi cuenta de Molobo, por favor revise Discusión:Alto alemán medio#¿El dtv-Atlas es ahora una publicación nazi polémica? No es una publicación nazi, está BASADA en una publicación respetada de posguerra.-- Ermenrich ( discusión ) 22:12 18 ago 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Sigue leyendo Walter Kuhn , un nazi que aboga por el genocidio de los polacos y está involucrado en la propaganda. Fuente inaceptable y poco fiable. --MyMoloboaccount ( discusión ) 22:18 18 ago 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Es el Atlas de:dtv. Aceptable y fiable.-- Ermenrich ( discusión ) 22:20 18 ago 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

No, es un nazi muy conocido, Walter Kuhn, que abogó por la supremacía alemana y el genocidio de otras naciones. --MyMoloboaccount ( discusión ) 22:21 18 ago 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

Estimado @MyMoloboaccount: ,

Tu argumentación no es profesional, se basa en un defecto repetitivo, porque nuevamente, en WP el juez respetó la confiabilidad de las obras, no las otras características del autor (por lo tanto, repetir n veces la postura de Kuhn sobre el nazismo y otras ideologías es inútil). ¿Crees que es decir, Philipp Lenard y su trabajo científico son nulos porque simpatizaba con los nazis? ¿Hablas en serio? @ Ermenrich : tiene razón, estás hablando de papa, él está hablando de manzana. ( KIENGIR (discusión) 22:41, 18 de agosto de 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

@ Ermenrich : , a su atención ([10]).( KIENGIR (discusión) 23:02 18 ago 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Agosto de 2019

Hola, puedes dejar de hacer contribuciones no constructivas y disruptivas sobre el Tratado de Campo Formio . El tratado en sí mismo obedece a reglas de convenciones estrictas: el depositario es la República Francesa, y el texto en francés tiene autoridad sobre cualquier otra versión. El documento está registrado formalmente como "Tratado entre la República Francesa y Austria". Como tal, el Monarca de la República Francesa y los Reinos de Bohemia y Hungría eran depositarios de la autoridad sobre los territorios austriacos y su monarquía. Este tratado se basa en hechos y no en interpretaciones históricas.

Así que, de nuevo: deja de introducir información falsa y subjetiva sobre un tema que parece que no entiendes.

Saludos. CocoricoPolynesien ( discusión ) 11:13 22 ago 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ CocoricoPolynesien : ,

No estoy haciendo ninguna contribución poco constructiva o disruptiva, perdón, sino contribuciones profesionales. El hecho de que los documentos estén "registrados formalmente" no prevalece sobre las partes entre las que se ha hecho el tratado, por escrito (por supuesto, podemos mencionar cómo está registrado, etc.). Lo que usted dijo sobre Bohemia es cierto, pero no sobre Hungría, ya que ha sido un reino y país independiente, con solo un rey Habsburgo. Este tratado se basa en hechos y no en interpretaciones históricas -> por eso es obvio que el tratado y todo el conflicto no se dieron solo entre Austria, sino entre toda la Monarquía de los Habsburgo, y usted tiene suficientes pistas en el registro de edición también, que lamentablemente no tuvo en cuenta por completo.

Por lo tanto, en el futuro ignoren comentarios inapropiados como : "De nuevo: dejen de introducir información falsa y subjetiva sobre un tema que parecen no entender".

Gracias( KIENGIR (discusión) 11:25 22 ago 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

"Contribuciones profesionales": si eso fuera cierto, habrías conservado el título original. Los "profesionales" no alteran bajo ninguna circunstancia la información histórica. Tu respuesta definitivamente confirmó que no entiendes el tema. El Monarca que reinó sobre los territorios austriacos fue titulado Emperador de los Romanos y Rey de Bohemia y Hungría, no sé de dónde viene el hecho de que Hungría era un reino separado. "Por eso es obvio": eso no es así y no te corresponde a ti hacer tal afirmación. Necesitas pruebas que no contradigan el tratado para afirmar eso. Lo último: los territorios afectados por el tratado están todos calificados de austriacos en el tratado. Los ejércitos involucrados están calificados de franceses y austriacos. El tratado se refería directamente al Archiduque y la Archiduquesa. Esos son hechos . CocoricoPolynesien ( discusión ) 11:51 22 ago 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ CocoricoPolynesien : ,

Les pido amablemente que dejen de hacer acusaciones inapropiadas y busquen mejor alguna información antes de atreverse a decir nuevamente que no entiendo el tema ni nada:

- no altere bajo ninguna circunstancia la información histórica -> La modifiqué para obtener información más precisa (y como dije, eso es diferente de cómo algunas partes pueden referirse al tratado o lo que está en el tratado de hecho)

- Tu respuesta definitivamente confirmó que no entiendes el tema -> No, boomerang...

- El Monarca que reinaba sobre los territorios austriacos se titulaba Emperador de los Romanos y Rey de Bohemia y Hungría -> En esto estamos de acuerdo, teniendo en cuenta que Hungría no era un "territorio austriaco", sino gobernado por la Rama Austriaca de los Habsburgo.

- Última cosa: los territorios afectados por el tratado están todos calificados de austriacos en el tratado. -> Esto no significa que el partido no fuera la Monarquía de los Habsburgo, ya que Austria era el núcleo de la misma.

- Los ejércitos implicados son de nacionalidad francesa y austríaca. -> Era el ejército de los Habsburgo, incluidos los 10.000 húngaros capturados por los franceses.

- Los hechos son que el firmante era el representante de la Monarquía de los Habsburgo, algo que usted tampoco negó con sus ediciones.( KIENGIR (discusión) 12:11 22 ago 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Has cambiado, punto, esto no debería pasar en Wikipedia: es una enciclopedia referenciada con fuentes fiables. "gobernado por la rama austriaca de los Habsburgo": que es la Monarquía austriaca. "no significa que el partido no fuera la Monarquía de los Habsburgo": ¿en qué parte del documento significa que se trata de toda la monarquía de los Habsburgo? En ninguna parte, por desgracia. "Era el ejército de los Habsburgo": no se hace referencia a ellos como tales, estás interpretando, una vez más. "era el representante de la Monarquía de los Habsburgo": no está escrito eso en absoluto. El firmante representa al Monarca que reina sobre los territorios austriacos. Regla de oro: no interpretes documentos históricos, especialmente si no conoces todo el contexto en el que fueron escritos.

Entonces, dados sus comentarios, dudo mucho que haya leído el documento y, si lo hizo, lo haya entendido.

Saludos - CocoricoPolynesien ( discusión ) 13:35 22 ago 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ CocoricoPolynesien : ,

Parece que eres un editor novato con menos experiencia. Nuevamente, por favor, deja de lado declaraciones inapropiadas como "punto final" o similares que ni siquiera se ajustan al contexto o al marco de los eventos y la discusión. Al mismo tiempo, no me enseñes sobre las políticas de contenido central de WP después de casi 9 años de experiencia.

- Vuelve a leerlo si no quedó claro; nadie dijo que no hubo alteración, la pregunta era a qué

- "gobernado por la rama austriaca de los Habsburgo": que es la Monarquía austriaca . -> que es la Monarquía de los Habsburgo, también llamada a veces Monarquía austriaca

- ¿ En qué parte del documento se dice que se trata de la monarquía de los Habsburgo en su totalidad ? ¿Dónde se menciona en el documento que se trata de un tratado de paz entre la República Francesa y Austria ? ¿Por qué no se cambia entonces el enlace wiki de la Monarquía de los Habsburgo por algo menos?

- "Se trataba del ejército de los Habsburgo": no se habla de ellos como tales, estás interpretando, una vez más. -> Como ya debes saber, es un conocimiento general del tema, de lo que hablamos es del ejército imperial (de los Habsburgo), no es una interpretación mía sino un hecho básico. ¿Nunca has oído hablar de ello?

- "fue el representante de la Monarquía de los Habsburgo": No está escrito eso en absoluto. -> ¿Está escrito Monarquía Austriaca ?

- El firmante representa al Monarca que reina sobre los territorios austriacos. -> Entonces, ¿por qué no cambia el enlace al Archiducado de Austria ?

- Regla de oro: no interpretes documentos históricos, especialmente si no conoces todo el contexto en el que fueron escritos. -> Si conocieras todo el contexto, ¿por qué te contradices recurrentemente?

Saludos.( KIENGIR (discusión) 13:54 22 ago 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

"Parece que eres un editor novato con poca experiencia. Nuevamente, por favor, deja de hacer declaraciones inapropiadas como "punto final" o similares que no se ajusten al contexto o al marco de los eventos y la discusión. Al mismo tiempo, por favor, no me enseñes sobre las políticas de contenido central de WP después de casi 9 años de experiencia". Tal vez ahora sea el momento adecuado para volver a leer esas políticas que no entendiste del todo. Dado tu historial pasado que se puede ver en esta página de discusión, creo que te estoy ayudando. Sin embargo, si continúas haciendo ese tipo de declaraciones, me veré obligado a denunciarte formalmente.

Por favor, absténgase también de publicar avisos infundados en las páginas de discusión de otros usuarios. Se interpretará como un resentimiento personal. No está lo suficientemente calificado ni es lo suficientemente objetivo para hacerlo.

Todas las preguntas ya fueron abordadas anteriormente.

El caso está cerrado. Saludos - CocoricoPolynesien ( discusión ) 14:12 22 ago 2019 (UTC) [ responder ]

@ CocoricoPolynesien : ,

Quizás ahora sea el momento adecuado para volver a leer aquellas políticas que no entendiste del todo -> Esta es una afirmación inapropiada, simplemente tu opinión, por favor deja este tipo de acusaciones, al menos es la tercera vez que te lo pido.

Si crees que me estás ayudando ¿por qué no sigues a WP:AGF ?

Sin embargo, si continúa haciendo esa afirmación, me veré obligado a denunciarlo formalmente. -> ¿Podría decirme a qué afirmación se refiere?

Por favor, absténgase también de publicar avisos infundados en las páginas de discusión de otros usuarios." -> lo siento, no se ha desarrollado ([11]), lea por favor WP:Civility .

Se interpretará como un rencor personal. -> No, por otro lado, se puede considerar un rencor personal porque usted inició esta discusión y otras acusaciones en mi página de discusión, aunque el tema pertenecería a la página de discusión del artículo.

No estás lo suficientemente calificado ni eres suficientemente objetivo para hacerlo. -> Disculpa, no entiendo, ¿a qué te refieres exactamente?

Todas las preguntas ya fueron abordadas anteriormente. -> No, son preguntas nuevas...

El caso está cerrado. -> ¿Qué quieres decir exactamente con esto? Gracias ( KIENGIR (discusión) 14:25 22 ago 2019 (UTC)) [ responder ]

Kuhn

Do you have an opinion about MyMoloboaccount's edits at Walter Kuhn? I'm rather reluctant to get into a fight about them, but I can't help but feel that there are some serious WP:WEIGHT and POV issues. If other editors think I'm wrong I'll feel better about just letting the article go.--Ermenrich (talk) 01:01, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ermenrich:,

I think you made useful contributions to the article, I was assessing the development continously, but per your request, I'll review his edits, since you did not object him much, I was considering everything is on the right path. Generally - I have to say - don't let anything ever go, if you do believe you are on the right path, especially because you are a valuable contributor that likes to really investigate all issues, shall it be controversial, "dangerous" or considered to opening a can of worms...."letting go" never would be good a solution, because sooner or later if not you, other's will intervene (the question is how, pretty unpredictable), but the guarantee of the most NPOV approach cannot miss even you. As you may see, I've been as well many times running into hot issues, but regardless of the sensitivity or any pressure or possible accusations, if you serve the most neutral content possible with good faith and the maximum accuracy, it will be noticed by others as well. Just see what I've been through in the Responsibility for the Holocaust article, check the events and the talk, people may be easily misunderstood or accused at first glance, similarly to the Kuhn isssue, but this should not keep us back to drop the possibility to develop this encyclopedia the most accurate as possible. Regards and keep on your good work on the project! (disclaimer for any third party: this is not a canvassing, I do not wish Ermenrich to take sides or intervene in the mentioned article, I just responded on a similar issue - WWII topic - demonstrating that the solution is not to give up a hard issue just because you might have been instantly labeled in a negative manner, similarly as it happened by the Kuhn map issue, NPOV should be really NPOV, shall anyone/any topic to be the subject.(KIENGIR (talk) 07:03, 23 August 2019 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you. I've explained some of my issues on the talk page there so that MyMoloboaccount might address them. My main concern is that he seems to be doing a search for any time Walter Kuhn name appears in the vicinity of any type of criticism, whether it's specific to Kuhn or not. The WW2 section also seems to rely heavily on sources that are simply summarizing (often inaccurately) scholarship by Burleigh that's already in the article.

I'm honestly getting very tired of these battles. Maybe I need to take a break from Wikipedia.--Ermenrich (talk) 12:38, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ermenrich:, I reviewed the article, and I noticed your concern. I the talk page you indicated the problem, however in Wikiproject Germany you added more details regarding a misleading citation that I did not find in the article's talk, maybe you should also copy there this concern (and as well leave a notice on Wikiproject Poland, to recruit Polish readers). Regarding the phenomenon I just indicated in my discussion on the other page referred earlier, when I started discussions on Polish-WWII related articles, soon I was confronted if I would be a Polish-accuser that amazed me, beucase I was told there are many and as I see those articles, nearly five-six editors on daily basis rendering issues with discussions that would be a real duty to entirely follow or analyze, but it seems circling on how Poles are responsible or not responsibe on the events related Jews and Nazis, rendering everyday NPOV issues. I informed them I am NOT a Polish-accuser (neither I did anything that would appear like so, despite this was the initial step in order to "decide" my possible evaluation), just accuracy and neutrality leads me, it seems after a few "pinches" I'v found the common voice with them, however also in other articles (shall it be Huns, Turkic-related articles, or WWII/Holocaust/Nazism) I see a tendency that fresh editors/contributors are very likely to be labeled or considered taking one side by others that blinds the real neutrality issues; in other word to remain at the real point. I consider this harmful and too prejudicative, however it should not make any editor to be afraid of frankly straight discussions of the problem, since that is the professional way, discussion and argumentation may be not any means condemned (I mean you would be immediately labeled that you are just arguing to prove your point, thus you are surely biased and not neutral, and if you'd argue further, that would mean you would not accept you are commited to that side, etc.). Returning back to the Polish-WW2 issues, if often looks to a third party editor if would be a competition that who was a bigger and more horrible Nazi, shall it be Polish-collaborator/Jewish collaborator, etc. and sometimes some particular points are missing where not this qualifier would be the most relevant at some issues, or similar with other subjects. Hence, it is not easy with sensitive issues filled with possible prejudications, unnecessary "battles" are time consuming and taking away precious happy editing time, I agree but even you take some Wikibreak, return soon :), the project needs you.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:09, 23 August 2019 (UTC))[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for August 26

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Sumer

I've left a note concerning the Phenotype subsection on the talk page. LetsEditConstructively (talk) 00:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1 September 2019

Hello, I'm Jeff6045. I noticed that you recently removed content from Fidesz without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks.

(talk • contribs) Jeff6045 00:08, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeff6045:,

sure, but this was an issue a long time and have been discussed many times, that's why such trials are reverted immediately.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:11, 1 September 2019 (UTC))[reply]

:Mainstream media such as new york times, time or al jazeera is placing Fidesz on the far-right. For example National Rally (France) has far-right position in Wikipedia because french mainstream media or international media is placing the party on the far-right. Also portugal Left Bloc has far left position due to same reason. Fidesz couldn't be an exception. In addition if there is argumentative issues on Fidesz it should be Semi-protected or at least there should be an explanation such as Brexit party.

@Jeff6045:,

The so-called "mainstream" view is not uniform, we have to be neutral here. New York Times is the traditional criticist of not just Orbán since almost twenty years, but as well Trump and anybody who have a different opinion of solving the migration crisis of Europe, etc. That's why we put criticism and other desciptions on the sections I referred but, we don't alter party positions because of the political ideology and agenda of some opposition media that are just accusing with some yeasty labelings, however the reality is totally different. Your possible generalization of other parties are not counting here, because we have to judge every case individually, especially in the Hungarian political paletta, where there are in fact really two far-right parties in opposition against Fidesz.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:02, 1 September 2019 (UTC))[reply]

:I respect your opinion. But you should know that your action is damaging fairness in Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a place to open your own political opinion but to edit article due to rational sources. It is your own choice whther you place Fidesz's political position to right-wing or far-right. But I want to notice you that people who support national rally do not think their party is far-right but they think mainstream medias or majority of critics are against their party. I will not revert my revision to the article, however if you want to protect fairness in Wikipedia you should add far-right position to Fidesz party. Thank you. (Jeff6045 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:42, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeff6045:,

I respect also yours, but please understand - I have a relevant experience on WP - that especially the opposite is happening, I prevent damaging fairness of Wikipedia (and it cannot be interpreted as "my action", it is based on a consensus made a long time ago where to put such other accusative descriptions). You were also told it is not my opinion, it is a fact that the party is not far-right, and as well our edits should support accuracy, because there are famous cases in WP where more reliable sources are contradicting each other, or are just simply inaccurate, there the editors common sense and good faith is needed to carefully chose in order to provide to the reader an accurate information!

people who support national rally do not think their party is far-right -> maybe this would be true for some people, also the same way it could be said people who support left-wing policy accused the opposition's every move to be far-right, as this has been the way of communication unfortunately, that both sides are making accusations for political purposes. Especially, the opposition parties in Hungary openly dislike Fidesz and criticize it, but none of them considers/treats or even accuses the part being far-right, because people would laugh and it would be the joke of the century (Hungary has a relevant history with real far-right parties, so every knows what is what, etc.), etc. Such accusations came from those media groups that are opposing any conservative-right wing policy that does not share the same views of the left-liberal parties, mostly how to handle migration crisis and the future of the European Union, hence our duty is to remain netural (WP:NPOV), and not let WP to be the battleground of political interest groups. That's why per consensus, exaggerated criticism goes to the "Ideology and policies" section. Regards.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:35, 1 September 2019 (UTC))[reply]

Hello

Look, I wouldn't have removed anything but the pages are conflictually written. We should have avoided to discuss censuses, Trianons, plus we should have also included unofficial history where there is. Otherwise the towns in Transylvania are Hungarised. Is it fair? This is concensus and universal history? I will personally write to any page the official census of Transylvania, written by Hungarian authors. Because it's confusing like the Romanians were only 10-20% or so in Transylvania. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ikastul (talk • contribs) 22:44, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ikastul:,

hello, I don't really understand what do you mean by conflictually written and why we should avoid any discussion or any census, official happenings, or what you'd mean regarding unofficial history...moreover, I don't know what you you mean by this sentence: Otherwise the towns in Transylvania are Hungarised. ?? Thus your further questions at this point should be clarified. On you lart sentence, I don't know what is your problem, since anyway official censuses were there, i.e. from 1910, i.e. that did not reflect what you suggest.(KIENGIR (talk) 11:36, 24 September 2019 (UTC))[reply]

Deletion of Nazi affiliation of Nazi activist and historian Walter Kuhn

Please do not delete information that Walter Kuhn was a Nazi, this is sourced to numerous sources and his involvement in ethnic cleansing by Nazis is well researched. Thank you. --MyMoloboaccount (talk) 21:42, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@MyMoloboaccount:,

are you kidding? I did not delete that he was Nazi, it is mentioned in the lead an as well in the entire article. You pretend if there would not be a discussion about this in the talk or in the NPOV board, but it was, and you did not gain consensus for any change, even your first bold edit regarding this was made under a false claim that it would be a restoration, although your addition was never part of the article.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:47, 3 October 2019 (UTC))[reply]

Re: Congrats

The final fixtures in November will be very interesting, a drama in the making. :) Tzowu (talk) 22:10, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom 2019 election voter message

Would you mind taking a look here?

You've offered your opinion before. I opened up an RFC on wording because one other editor keeps reverting, would you mind adding your opinion? [12]? Faustian (talk) 14:49, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Will do.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:08, 20 November 2019 (UTC))[reply]

Researching the statement: ...." In the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, the family owned many castles and large residences. It's said that they owned up to 99 castles but never 100 as this would have required their personal contribution to fund the imperial army."....

Hi, I came across this statement : ..."In the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, the family owned many castles and large residences. It's said that they owned up to 99 castles but never 100 as this would have required their personal contribution to fund the imperial army."... on the wiki page : https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pálffy_ab_Erdöd&oldid=910976523

I have no idea "how" wiki works, and was trying to email the creator of this page, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pálffy_ab_Erdöd&oldid=910976523, where he would have found this claim/statement. what historic book it might come from, etc., etc..

Sadly, after 20 minutes of surfing wiki, I still have no clue why there are no email addresses of writers here to be found.

Could you possibly help me find the right track and the right way of communication so that I could find out who wrote this page with this specific statement?

any help guiding me into the right direction would be much appreciated,

Regards,

Akos Simon email: [email protected]

I am a direct descendent of the Pálffy-Daun of Erdöd family, and hence am very curious where this claim of 99 castles came from. I am not doubting it, but I never heard of it before. It would be fun to be able to see the source of this statement.

Hi,

@2A05:DCC0:13:6600:94F4:B4FD:4287:73EA:, I either did find information to support the statement. An anynimous IP Address added the content ([13]), on the user's talkpage ([14]) - that is currently empty - you mask from where he took the information, however since IP addresses may vary, it is not sure the recipient will be now like then...though I'll help you to ping the user here to read our discussion, and may respond to you.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:22, 26 November 2019 (UTC))[reply]

Merry Christmas/ Boldog Karácsonyt!

Hi! Things I dislike on Wikipedia: 1. We need to be careful with the ethnicity of the players, there are names in Romania that sound Hungarian but are not. It might have been Hungarisation or not, I am not an expert. 2. If you want to add (not you of course, but the nationalists) to the introduction that he is Hungarian (might be "also" Hungarian) then at least write "Hungarian descent" and not "Hungarian ethnicity". If you can't add a source showing the player has two Hungarian parents, although this is probably also wrong. It is allowed but normally it should be written like that only if both parents are Hungarian. Otherwise find if the parents are of different ethnicities, then write that at Personal Life/ Early Years. 3. Some nationalists are degrading the articles of some Romanian players just because they are of Hungarian descent/ even ethnicity. If they are born in Romania, and they also didn't switch for Hungary, just add Romanian sources (links). PS. Maybe I should have not removed that at Szekely Land NT. If I wanted to manipulate, I could have easily add them a Romanian flag instead of the Szekely one. Jakab trained Romania Futsal and Ilyes is Romanian. PSS. Some nationalists are so stupid to believe some Hungarian descent was not called up by Romania because of his origin. No, if a player was not convoked, he was not good enough. Many players have been called up by youth national teams not to lose them because they have potential. The nationalists are still brainwashed with lies everywhere in the world. I am not talking about history but about how are the things happening (they think they live in WW1/ WW2). Cheers, mate! End-of-season-updates (talk) 13:26, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@End-of-season-updates:,

Merry Christams also to you!

1. Sure.

2. I have to diagree you judge people adding true content to the article would be "nationalists", there is not much difference between "descent" and "ethnicity" in that context, i.e. where you replaced this wordage, anyway they are clear cases, descent would be more eligible if the Hungarian origin is distant by any means (like Keserü), but not where it is direct or present. Your deduction as per defining is nationality is fallacious, someone is not Hungarian whether both of the parents are Hungarian or proved to be Hungarian, anyway even enough one parent would be enough this anyway, ethnicity may be a more complex thing influenced by also other parameters. Moreover if the parents are mixed, it is not necessarily excluded to identify in the lead the origin, it anyway does not deminuate the other parents nationality that probably in such case you refer is on the first place.

3.I don't see what degradion you refer. WP has it sourcing policy, and does not favor Romanian sources over Hungarian or vica versa, thus you don't need to remove Hungarian sources and replace them with Romanian.

PS: The flags you removed has also not very clear to me, maybe it indicated the citizenship, i.e. holding both Hungarian and Romanian, but it is less likely, so none should be re-added unless FIFA nationality is proved to be Hungarian (active players are identified by their FIFA nationality on the first place). Also we should not confuse nationality with ethnicity, because Ilyés is Romanian citizen, thus he is "Romanian" coach, but his ethnicity is Hungarian.

PSS: I don't know from where you have these experiences, since as well recently playesr of Hungarian descent are called in the Romanian national team, but yes, brainwashed liars are everywhere in the world. Cheers, as well!(KIENGIR (talk) 06:33, 26 December 2019 (UTC))[reply]

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. Sebi Buduroi '99 (talk) 19:11, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Are you serious? Happy New Year :) (KIENGIR (talk) 02:07, 1 January 2020 (UTC))[reply]

The borders of Southeastern Europe

KIENGIR, it has come to my concern about the status of Hungary and whether it should be considered a Southeastern European country or not. Hungary's shared Carpathian/Pannonian heritage and centuries of cultural diffusion with Romania and Moldova should deserve it a place in the greater Southeastern European community (including South Slavs, Greeks, Albanians, and Turks). Moreover, Hungary was located at the furthest frontier of the Ottomans, which much of Southeastern European culture derives from, and I don't know where you got the information that Hungary was considered Southeastern European until after WWII. So, I'd like to know why Hungary is not considered Southeastern European. Blacklister3000 (talk) 01:47, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Blacklister3000:,

Hi, let's make then more clear the topic.

Hungary historically have been considered much of it existence a Central-European country, that is correct. As well nowadays it is a central-European country (with it's reduced borders), however it has been often considered or treated as an Eastern European country, mostly becuase of the Iron gate and the post WWII Communist barrier of the non-Communist Western side of Europe, and the intrepretations narrowed to West and East. After the fall of Communism, people used and often confused the terms Eastern-Central Europe or Central-Eastern Europe, (the earlier is correct for Hungary, if we see detailed). If you check the relevant articles, interpretations vary over time, however looking on wider tendencies we may easily determine what designation would be correct - despite there a few cases where it is harder.

The Carpathian/Pannonian heritage historically belongs along with Hungary the Western Christian heritage, as historically the cultural and religious barrier was between the Roman Catholic and Byzantine influence, following Hungary to the East or South the Orthodox influence was present. Because of this, no way it may be classified to the South Slavs, Greeks, Albanians, and Turks, that were part not just culturally, but geographically a significantly different sphere, practically the Balkan peninsula with some extents. With Romania Hungary did not share centuries of cultural diffusion (with Wallachia yes, similarly with Moldova, as former neighbors and regarding other feudal relations of course some interference happened, but they undoubtedly with their Orthodox customs and heritage belong to the East, as the Carpathian mountains had been the classic delimiter or the Western cultural sphere, and better they adopted more western influence, than vica versa). As you said, Hungary had been the barrier of the Ottoman Empire, but just the barrier, not itself belonging to it (even some part had been occpied and annexed temporarily).

If you check interwar or WWII terminologies on cultural, racial aspects, works, discussions, shall they be German or Hungarian or ther, the concept of Southeastern Europe appears, as Hungary being on the barrier or crossroads of it, borderd by the Orthodox eastern culture on the East, the Balkan on the south with similar and Ottoman influence, etc. Especially, if you read the ideologies on Hungarism an related works, the phrase you'll find, however as demonstrated above, it is obsolete and outdated, never really had been permanent.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:45, 14 January 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Repeated edit warring

Your recent editing history at Hungarian language shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Jeppiz (talk) 22:07, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeppiz: ,

Are you kidding? The frame of edit warring may depend on specific context, but more likely only after the second revert (and better only if the talk page have not been used), this notification is too early, to say nothing of I acted per policy, without harming any rule, you also did not take into consideration that the other user seem have a little experince here, may not know properly our policies.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:16, 14 January 2020 (UTC))[reply]

• You have reverted three times in just a few hours. That very much falls under WP:3RR and any further revert is likely to lead a to a block.
• You do not act per policy. WP:BRD applies to all users. Only if there is vandalism can you ignore WP:3RR, not in a content dispute like this.
• The level of experience of another user is no excuse for edit warring.
• With all due respect: I'd caution you against claiming others don't know policies, especially given the misunderstanding you make above. Jeppiz (talk) 22:36, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not get me wrong. I do not doubt your good intentions. On the contrary, I'm sure your motives are good. I just want to point out the above. The only time one can ignore 3RR is in vandalism or sock-puppets. Being right, or being in line with consensus, is not an excuse for edit warring. And edit warring does not have to be the exact same edit; if you restore the same thing three times, as with the 'traditional classication', it counts as 3RR. Again, I'm sure your intentions are good so these pointers just meant to help you. Jeppiz (talk) 22:40, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeppiz:,

• you know very well you did not take again into consideration, that is per editor? (thus, your first point is not really accurate, since the other user made 4 edits, if we would really strictly see any change wholly or partially, at least you should have warn as well him/her in case, if you have chosen to do with me, btw.)

• Yes, I acted - see previous as well -, I reverted to the previous version, while the other user did not (thus, i.e. the other user did not apply BRD, since then he/she would at least revert to an identical version before Kwami, but it did not happen, check the diffs!).

• I did not made any "excuse", I repeat I do not agree that what happened went over the frame of edit-warring (and not even my behalf, so I have to protest again the name of this section, since not by any means repeated edit warring occured)

• Becuase of the previous, I did not make any misunderstandings, you may be sure I am strictly precise. I kindly ask you to be so in the future, and less sudden before judging the events.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:49, 14 January 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Clarification regarding birthplace of Leo Szilard

@KIENGIR:
others see: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Leo_Szilard&diff=937393587&oldid=937221126

Being on your talk page and noticing all those warnings and possible blockings I can totally see where you are coming from and what your point of view is. That being said I still want to explain this topic to you.
You are arguing about citizenship, but this is not what I was referring to. There is no denying that Leo was Hungarian and always has been. Also regarding the dual citizenship, there was no dual citizenship as you stated correctly. I didn't say otherwise. CumbererStone said that it wasn't allowed and that was just incorrect. Now back to the main topic with a little bit of citizenship along the line. Before 1867 and the compromise with the Kingdom of Hungary there was the Austrian Empire with its crownlands, which the kingdom of hungary was part of and it was one of the crownlands. Everyone had their Landtag and they were basically administrative units, de facto they where subjects. The austrian empire had a few constitutions which technically said that everyone was "Austrian" or at least a citizen of the austrian empire. There where like four constitutions in a short period of some decades and one of them even disputed, not fully acknowledged and not applied. This is quite a difficult topic because from my understanding the whole "citizenship" was just under development in the beginning of the 19th century, especially in the multinational states. Again citizenship is not the topic here.
Then there was the compromise with the hungarian kingdom and now we have two equal states, the austrian empire and the kingdom of hungary, each with their crownlands (yes the kingdom of croatia was one of them albeit in a personal union under hungarian rule, and no they where no standalone (independent) kingdom) under the rule of the austrian emperor, as emperor of austria and apostolic king of hungary, in the dual monarchy of the austro-hungarian empire. So hungary was not a standalone kingdom as it was part of said austro-hungarian empire. Yes of course he was born in the Kingdom of Hungary, this is not wrong but only valid to some degree and they are definitely not interchangable as you stated and as explained above the correct and more precise term is Austria-Hungary.
Goalgetter9 (talk) 15:46, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Goalgetter9:,

Excuse me, I do not understand what you are refferring in your first two sentences, anyway you are inaccurate, since many warnings were useless and made by mistake - even explained - and the warner's point has been lost later and I was justified. Hence your statement I can totally see where you are coming from and what your point of view is is a superficial prejudication without any real content and knowledge.

You explanation is as well here false. Yes, the topic is the citizenship, and Hungary was a crownland, but different from all, since it was Regnum Independens, a separate country only having a common monarch with Austrian Empire's (and never ever any subject of Hungary was Austrian or had Austrian citizenship). Equality after 1867 meant only there was an alleged equality on introducing some joint institutions in the Monarchy. Croatia has always been separate never being part Hungary proper as well. Hungary has been a standalone kingdom (being part of a monarchy is not exclusive and different, Habsburg Monarchy was as well never a country), then and after, contrary to your argumentation, which shows the lack of expertise knowledge in the topic, that has been already discussed in the several years entirely (in Europe's history, btw, many countries had same monarchs without uniting them, remaining completely separate, it is a real problem you still do not understand not the King or common King descide on this question). So yes, they are interchangeable and redundant, it is only a courtesy if Austria-Hungary is shown, because it was not even a country, just a Monarchy.(KIENGIR (talk) 16:07, 25 January 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Clarification.

What was your reason for erasing my edit regarding The Kingdom of Poland?

-thanks!

Mogue 051914 (talk) 15:03, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Mogue 051914:,

as written in the edit log "technical revert, the infobox get damaged by the coat of arms oversized...fix it please somehow..."...you may check the page after your revision, an see it by your eyes...you may try again and work until it's ok...if still no success, ask help from Wikiproject Poland! Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 16:46, 26 January 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Alright, thank you! Will sort it out. Apologizes for the bother (also I could've just checked the edit log, which I didn't do, whatever). Thank you again and bye! Mogue 051914 (talk) 17:09, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kovács Gyula

Erre mi a forrás? Ha valóban 125 évet élt, az világrekord, így elég szkeptikus vagyok. Igazából, ha nem te szerkesztetted volna, nyomban visszaállítottam volna a lap tartalmát, de így tényleg kíváncsi vagyok. --Norden1990 (talk) 14:01, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Norden1990:,

thanks for your trust and message :), but honestly, I did not realize such honorable lifespan...I was disturbed having no info, but the Arabic WP somehow contained this information along with the death place data...in case you consider the death date is fringe, then feel free to delete it or add a cn tag, but I think the death place should remain.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:08, 27 January 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Hungarian version provides the year 1963 with the source: ^[1] Unfortunately, I have no Family Search access to check the validity of the source, put by an anon into the article in July 2019. Anyway, here, in English wiki, there was an user eight years ago, who claimed he is the great-grandson of Gyula Kovács. Unfortunately, he did not respond my request thereafter and never edited Wikipedia again. --Norden1990 (talk) 14:23, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Norden1990:,

recently I edited Lawrence Gellert, where also many details are obscorous, I tried as well FamSearch, but there would be more László Grünbaum with different birth dates - the one would consider it is really a rare name -, I have no access either...well, you and I did everything we could...maybe other Hungarian editors may search what they could having access where we don't have, or should we raise it to Wikiproject Hungary or Wikiproject United States?(KIENGIR (talk) 14:37, 27 January 2020 (UTC))[reply]

WP Hungary is completely inactive. Maybe, we should sought assistance from one of the members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Genealogy.--Norden1990 (talk) 14:50, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

1. "California Death Index, 1940-1997," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VP4H-VV2 : 26 November 2014), Julius Kovacs, 10 Oct 1963; Department of Public Health Services, Sacramento.

Micharel the Brave

Apparently and unfortunately, you are supposed to be warned before you are reported. Hereby I warn you. Simply stop misleading people by editing historical articles with text that fits your script. Nobody cares about hungarian revisionism. Especially on a wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.27.150.8 (talk) 09:05, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Anon, you apparently do not understand the meaning of the word "Hungarian". Moldavian chroniclers and Romanian historians can hardly be described as Hungarians. Would you refer to reliable sources verifying that Miron Costin was a Hungarian revisionist historian? Borsoka (talk) 09:30, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@188.27.150.8:,

Sorry, I do not mislead anybody, etc., you are on a total wrong path, any other is well said by the one before me.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:52, 3 February 2020 (UTC))[reply]

meaning check "scholars generally define"

Hi. Concerning this edit, my interpretation of this in English is that you can basically understand that "generally" means "almost unanimous". Is this also how you read it? So this sentence disagrees with the rest of the article, and as far as I can see no editor on Wikipedia has taken such a strong position on talk pages either.

A second problem: to say that a field has come to an almost unanimous position needs a strong source. What we have here are just some examples, none of which are making a statement as strong as this sentence in Wikipedia. Did you look at those sources?

More complex. We are saying now (1) there were Germani who did not speak Germanic and (2) BECAUSE of this basically ALL scholars now ONLY mean Germanic speaking when they say Germanic peoples. None of the sources write anything like this, but in fact most of them are assuming that all Germani simply spoke Germanic. The implied "because" is in conflict with these sources.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 11:48, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Andrew Lancaster:,

I don't basically understand on generally = almost unanimous, rather usually/mostly. Probably you'd guess/know I am not a native English speaker, however. In case, present our discussion in the talk page of the article, if you think more feedback would be necessary on this.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:00, 9 February 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Yes, I posted there about the question also, but on this point I was wondering if there might be a different understanding about that word.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 00:04, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

racking

In answer to your question, I would say both words would be unusual choices, though technically the two spellings could be just variants. See: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:KIENGIR/wrack "Alternative form of rack (“to cause to suffer pain, etc.”)". The two words are uncommon and sometimes get confused it seems. It says: "Frequently confused with rack (“torture; suffer pain”), though traditionally means “wreck”." I would probably choose a word that is more common, less poetic, such as "afflicted"? My concern would be that even many English speakers will not quite get it.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 08:16, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have no strong preference but perhaps I would choose wracked. But I am not so sure why we'd need to use one of them.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 22:13, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to follow up on this, after some copy editing the word wracked/racked was removed and the sentence was rewritten. Thank you both for your input, and I agree that if I had to choose then "afflicted" probably would have been the safest bet. Best, SamCordes^talk 04:40, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Urartu

You're correct. It's fringe. Some sources.

Levon Abrahamian, 1998 [[15]]:

George Anchabadze : Urartu was an ancient state in the Caucasus... The native tongue of the ethnic kernel of this state apparently was close to the Vainakh-Daghestani linguistic group... Later, after the fall of Urartu, the ancient Armenian tribes gradually began to spread on the territory of Southern Transcaucasia, though the process of formation of the independent Armenian State protracted for the reason that the country was subject to the rule of the Persian, as well as Greek and Macedonian conquerors. It was only in 189 B.C. when the kingdom of Great Armenia came into being. The state reached the peak of its power in the first half of the 1st century B.C., when the Armenian Kingdom comprised a vast territory from the Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean.

Here is Diakonoff on Hurro-Urartian influences on Armenian -- note, influences. Not descent. [[16]]. Urartian forms a substratum that influenced Armenian in the sort of way that Coptic would influence Egyptian Arabic [[https://www.jstor.org/stable/602722?casa_token=kZBOhZfkyncAAAAA:jUHr3b79cPhw67xn4sPIMaAW13SWJM_w5tJNJKrqvuEIyJH7CxQpTa_h5Tk9JdodG9FiLIfKpsJibcMQM-Fol7k8xOtgiNhEgKMjG45f4ak4uHLe&seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents ]]. Copied from my earlier post on the matter about a year ago I think--Calthinus (talk) 02:39, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Calthinus:,

Thank you, I think you should as well start editing the Urartu page and remove fringe additions and make an overall check and roboration of the article. I'd suggest you as well to revert yourself at Ermenrich's page, I think it is good if he knows as well that my suspicion is reinforced.(KIENGIR (talk) 02:44, 12 February 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Yup I removed it before I moved it here. Apologies for any double pings. --Calthinus (talk) 03:35, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

German exonyms in Transylvania

I understand keeping the Hungarian names as well, but why are they organized by German exonym? The Romanian name/ endonym is the source of the English names and thus should be listed first. In the English Wikipedia at least. Starbeam2 (talk) 17:31, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Starbeam2:,

Well since the article is about German exnonyms, I don't see devilish to list anything according to them, and Romanian follows, etc. In other places, where the place is referred at regular, non-historic conditions, of course Romanian is in the first place...(KIENGIR (talk) 23:20, 16 February 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Jabuka

Good evening! User:R.Saringer a former sock puppet of AustrianFreedom is back again. User: 84.114.224.212 starting 14th of February. pls see [[17]] Gruss--Špajdelj (talk) 22:56, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Špajdelj:,

if you are condfident on this, please report it to an administaror as well. Thank you.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:23, 16 February 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Re: Croatia proper

I think it is fine to include "Central Croatia", similarly to Serbia proper which is Central Serbia. For historical entities there are articles such as Kingdom of Croatia (Habsburg). Tzowu (talk) 22:17, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

wp:or at Slavic honorifics

Hi Kiengir, could you please undo the recent series of or edits made by Klemczak at Slavic honorifics? I saw you undid his edits at Austria and you have rollback tolls so you don't have to undo each edit individually. I reversed one, but I've been warned twice above wp:3rr recently so I don't want to test my luck.--Ermenrich (talk) 19:05, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Ermenrich:,

I don't have rollback rights yet, but it does not matter I can solve the problem anyway. Just tell me first if 37.30.51.236 & Urgentresearch edits are ok, or those should be as well reverted...and please also open a section in the talk there that you contest Klemczak 's edis because of OR, thus inititating a discussion (so later nobody may accuse you of any misconduct). Afterwards, will act accrodingly. Cheers(KIENGIR (talk) 19:19, 17 March 2020 (UTC))[reply]

The IP edit is also OR, but there's nothing wrong with Urgentresearch's edit. I'll post something on the talk page.--Ermenrich (talk) 19:22, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No surprises, please

In Hedy Lamarr, you did a pipe, [ [Cisleithania|Austria] ]. I reverted that as per WP:SURPRISE. Cisleithania is not the same as Austria. Peaceray (talk) 15:28, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Peaceray:,

only now I noticed your message...read the edit log on the page, you are wrong, no surprise. Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 15:38, 24 March 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Any time you send someone to a link that you have identified as another entity altogether, it is absolutely a surprise. Cisleithania is in almost certainly unknown to most English speakers. It is decidedly not a nationality. Masquerading it as Austria is simply unacceptable.

If you wanted to change "[ [Austria-Hungary|Austria] ]n-born American actress" to Austro-Hungarian-born American actress" that might be more accurate, but [ [Cisleithania|Austria] ] will simply get you reverted, as another editor already has done.

Peaceray (talk) 21:14, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Peaceray:,

Sorry, please follow up the discussion on the talk page, it is only a suprise for you or those who are not familiar in details or an expertise matter of the subject. Facts or accuracy of national citizenship and belonging does not depened on the knowlegde of English speakers (funny, majority if Eglish speakers does not have even idea or special historical citizenship status much of Europe, btw.). The other important aspect is, that your aproach is failed in the beginning, since Austrian is a nationality, nobody said Cisleithania would be, be that article belong to the Austrian Empire between 1867-1918, hence it is not any means a masquerade, but the accurate linking of the country which citizen the subject was.

"[ [Austria-Hungary|Austria] ]n-born American actress", surely I did not want, since it would be less accurate, since as I indicated more places, Austria-Hungary was a monarchy of two separate states, and she was born in the Austrian Empire, being the citizen of that consituent part, that was Cisleithania.

Finally [ [Cisleithania|Austria] ] will simply get you reverted, as another editor already has done." is not the best approach you may do, since the other editor made the similar mistake like you, intervened on something where does not have the proper knowledge in details, and in the talk he failed to explain or support what he did as well. I recommend you to analyze the subject on the ground the information I gave you, instead of making tendentious plans of reverting, this is not the best appraoch in WP, considering I am a long time professional in the subject with many years of experience on the affairs of Austria and Hungary in an advanced matter (among many other related topics, btw.). Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 21:29, 24 March 2020 (UTC))[reply]

March 2020

Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions, such as the edit you made to Hedy Lamarr, did not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. This is under discussion & you do not have consensus to remove the link. Lack of consensus does not automatically allow an individual editor to overrule WP:EDITCONSENSUS. If you participate in arriving at consensus on the talk page, I will remove this warning. If you continue to arbitrarily enforce your own point of view in your edits in this matter, I will add disruptive editing warnings of greater severity. Get consensus & all will be good, even if this is contrary to my own opinions in this matter. Peaceray (talk) 15:26, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Peaceray,

are you kidding? Please read WP:BRD and WP:CONSENSUS again. user General Iroh, the Dragon of the West made a bold edit ([18]), that I contested afterwards, and then you contested my edit. Hence none of his version, none of my version gained consensus, so I legally unlink that part according to the rules, since I opened a discussion in the talk, and we concluded we don't have consensus (as as well that the original linking was no ok). So with your misinterpration of the rules you've made this warning as a mistake, since I did not do any uncronstructive edit, on the contrary!

As result your statement of arbitrarily enforce your own point of view in your edits is false, you did this by reverting my unlinking, since than you support a version that a same way does not have consensus, so worst case the article should have been rolled before any of teh subjects mentioned edited.

I kindly ask you please very carefully analyze WP:RULES, because since a while you continously misinterpreting it, or not using properly. Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 17:03, 26 March 2020 (UTC))[reply]

You are right

I did look and you are right thanks for pointing that out.Clock Spider78 (talk) 01:32, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fidesz

Hi there,

I was just wondering what your reasonings are for removing “Turanism” from fidesz’s ideologies

I added Turanism for a number of reasons:

•Hungary joined the Turkic council •Orban/Fidesz talks about their relation to stills the Hun •They say they are Turkic •They want closer cooperation with Turkic nations •Consistent positive speaking about the Turkic council and Turkic nations/people

TurkishSportsandLife (talk) 18:42, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TurkishSportsandLife:,

Hi,

First of all, please read WP:NOR, and

- Hungary did not join really, but having observer status

- Orbán talked about what the Hungarian generally consider, not about him or Fidesz

- no they did not say such

- (last two entires) yes, but it does not neccesarily have any connection to any ideology(KIENGIR (talk) 18:51, 29 March 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Hi, thank you for you response :) Firstly, to where you stated that they didn’t say this. Orban said that they are Hun Turkic and a relative. He said to be proud of their national identity. - Also a bill has been introduced by the government (Fidesz) to gain diplomatic status in the Turkic council TurkishSportsandLife (talk) 21:54, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TurkishSportsandLife:,

Sure :)

They say they are Turkic -> for this I stated. Orbán said we are a Christian nation living in the West, that is based on the Hunnic-Turkic origin, the Hungarians treat themselves as the late descendants of Attila, etc., not what you said

Again, any relation to the Turkic Council does not have neccesarily have any connection to any ideology.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:04, 29 March 2020 (UTC))[reply]

He said: Hungary has always focused on the cooperation of Turkic speaking states which nurture their language, culture and traditions even in the modern world, he said.”Hungarians consider themselves late descendants of Attila, of Hun-Turkic origin, and Hungarian is a relative of Turkic languages,” Orbán said. “Only those people can be strong who are proud of their national identity,” he added. Orbán said that in light of the “fantastic” economic and political development of Turkic countries “it is to be taken as an expression of praise if Hungarians are called an Eastern people”. I got this from ‘Hungary today’

I think it does to an extent, because the Turkic in itself is a form of unity between Turkic nations and people. If they have an interest in making closer ties and close cooperation and unity together in a council that shows Turanism TurkishSportsandLife (talk) 22:25, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TurkishSportsandLife:,

not exactly this he said, what you cite is a summarization of an author of Hungarytoday, I qouted directly Orbán's words from the official page of the prime ministry. Anyway he, Fidesz, and/or the government is also in a close co-operatuion with many non-Turkic nations and organizations, so this assertion cannot be presented as a unique support of an ideology.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:10, 30 March 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you.--Adûnâi (talk) 02:38, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Adûnâi:,

one revert is NOT edit warring, please analyze our policies thorougly. Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 08:40, 1 April 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I can put two and two together and see where it is going. Also, "our" policies? What chutzpah! Last time I checked, Wikipedians could write in English.--Adûnâi (talk) 11:08, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Adûnâi:,

please study WP:AAGF also and again, avoid personal attacks. Thank you(KIENGIR (talk) 12:39, 1 April 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Pan-Asianism

Hi KIENGIR! I have seen you have reverted this IP edit[19]. When I saw it yesterday, I was about to do the same, but then noticed that the deleted content was added by another IP without explanation last year[20]. Since nothing about Islam and Middle East is the main text, it shouldn't appear in the lede as well, unless well-sourced. So the last IP edit looks valid IMHO. –Austronesier (talk) 08:23, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Austronesier:,

Thank you for your notice, made the self-revert!(KIENGIR (talk) 16:26, 9 April 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Talk page

Just a side remark. I think my Talk page is not the proper place to discuss a movement of a page - no other editors can join us. As you initiated the discussion on my Talk page, we have no choice but finish it on it, but the outcome will be shaky. Borsoka (talk) 01:15, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Borsoka:,

Yes, thank you that you moved it to the proper place!(KIENGIR (talk) 09:51, 12 April 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for April 13

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Csanád County Editing

Dear KIENGIR,

You removed again and copied my 'Renaming Csongrád County' section to the History of Csongrád County article. You did so without replying to the talk page of the original article. I believe your edit is unreasonable for two reasons:

1) Csanád county ceased to exist under Communism. Now that Csongrád will be renamed, it will come into existence in some form again. Therefore it is related to Csanád's history as well.

2) Right now, Csongrád's only history is my verbatim text about the renaming process. This mentions things like 'János Lázár' and '2017.' I don't think it is relevant to that section; in fact, I don't think it is a historical overview at all.

I am considering undoing your change again. Please share with me your thoughts about the issue!

Ignotvs (talk) 18:09, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dear @Ignotvs:,

you did not submit until now anything on the talk page, and in case new consensus would be needed for any new additions.

1, The article's scope is ending in 1920, thus in case only a short reference I may support regarding the recent renaming, not an entire section

2, feel free to edit the Csongrád article and we'll see.

Please do not revert more, until the end of the talk page discussion per WP:BRD, will answer also there. Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 18:47, 17 April 2020 (UTC))[reply]

The comment to the Csanád County Talk page was added right after I reversed your change. You did your second revert without responding to it when it had already existed.

Csanád County, as the article says, existed between 11th century until 1920 (1950 actually). The county was dissolved in 1950. As I mentioned before, if this county's name will be restored then Csanád County will come into being once again and thus it will be relevant to an article dealing with the history of Csanád County.

I believe my edit was indeed a "short reference;" two sentences in fact.

P.S.: are you sure you use 'in case' correctly? it makes the understanding of your text difficult

Ignotvs (talk) 20:32, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ignotvs:, Yes, you are right, I misread the date...anyway, one short sentence is enough (you made a new subsection, etc.). Normally, if any bold edit is not contested, after a time it will be considered mostly accepted...if not, then consensus has to be built in a traditional way.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:47, 17 April 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR

I would just like to warn you that as of now you've had more than 120 issues with your editing history on Wikipedia. This is not a flattering record to have. It may be all those people who are unreasonable, or you might have editing policies that are abrupt, illogical and un-constructive; in short, they are not suitable for editing Encyclopedias. Also, your English evidently needs polishing, which, in turn, brings into question the legitimacy of your editing English Wikipedia.

Ignotvs (talk) 21:15, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ignotvs:,

I don't know which issues you refer of 120 (?), however since I have completely the opposite editing policies you might have adressed to me, your approach is quite interesting. Yes, I'll try to always improve myself, though I am not single being not native here. Finally, it is quite interesting as well a fresh user have such a thorough view on WP and a special personalization approach, however I'd advice to you to comment on content, not on editors; as our policies point out. Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 00:52, 18 April 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Rus and Russia

@KIENGIER

You are correct. Thank you for pointing out the timeline. I did a little research and learned more about the "land of Rus," which is appropriate to the timeline referenced on the Teutonic Order page. Again--thanks for helping in my learning process! Crandall (talk) 05:39, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Crandall:,

At your service!(KIENGIR (talk) 05:42, 8 May 2020 (UTC))[reply]

so basically

you are THE MAN! :D --Havsjö (talk) 19:58, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Havsjö:,

:), in connection with what you referred? :) (KIENGIR (talk) 05:18, 12 May 2020 (UTC))[reply]

nothing special lol --Havsjö (talk) 07:24, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for May 17

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Duchy of Carniola, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Kingdom of Croatia (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 12:45, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vasas

The Vasas SC article is solely about the men's football team. If you want to propose a move to Vasas FC using WP:RM then be my guest. GiantSnowman 16:13, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well as it's about the football club Vasas FC should be the correct location IMHO. GiantSnowman 16:33, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There should only be one player category for a club, using the club's current name. GiantSnowman 18:22, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Following me all over Wikipedia?

Hello.

So I've noticed you've been very concerned about my activity on this site, for some reason. First you start undoing my edits on the Sibiu article, then you suddenly pop up on the Art Nouveau talk page, as if you knew I was there as well. It is obvious to me that you are, for some reason, checking on my activity using the "User contributions" button on my user page. Otherwise you wouldn't have known about every place I've been on Wikipedia, right?

So tell me, is something disturbing you about my edits? Normally, one doesn't simply start checking up on another user's edits. I'm not accusing you of anything, just asking. Lupishor (talk) 20:54, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Lupishor:,

no, I don't have any serious concern as you might speculate, both of the articles are in my watchlist among many-many others and edited as well long time before, and any user contributions may be seen by any article's history, if you check. If I have a problem with any edits, I always indicate it, it has no connection to the user, but the edit itself, like it has always been.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:08, 25 May 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Okay then, sorry for my wrong speculation. :) Lupishor (talk) 19:25, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can I ask what you do in the case a user is following you all over Wikipedia maliciously? DxRxXxZx (talk) 00:47, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lady Grimelda

Thank you! — Mychele Miha (talk) 00:21, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Editing while logged out?

Do you think 84.209.61.213 and Posp68 are one and the same? See e.g. [21].--Ermenrich (talk) 14:11, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ermenrich:,

The IP simultaneously edited together with Posp68, sometimes a bit differently. Do you now how to geolocate a registered user, with details? (I only now it somehow regarding IP addresses) If you succeed, you may compare the address listed...if not, then an admin should be asked.(KIENGIR (talk) 02:10, 2 June 2020 (UTC))[reply]

The IP is located in Norway. I would have assumed that Posp68 was Czech, but he could be living abroad (often the biggest nationalists on WP don't actually live in the country they're nationalist for). I'll bring it up with the admin who blocked him before. If he thinks it's warranted I'll go to SPI.--Ermenrich (talk) 12:32, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The admin doesn't see a problem.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:28, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ermenrich:,

yes, but I would have been curious where Posp68 would geolocate, it is as well Norway? Well, as you mentioned a I recalled something (Talk:Munich_Agreement):

Posp68 posted this: I'm from Norway and speak Norwegian. Hungarians are from Asia.

That would conclude they are one and the same and Ymblanter's supposition is correct. If so, the question would be reduced concerning the regulations of off-line editing, which policies should be investigated. Otherwise the IP's alterations on other user's comments should be reverted...(KIENGIR (talk) 15:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Do you have a diff for that? Is there any other racialist thing he said?--Ermenrich (talk) 15:54, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ermenrich:,

([22]), ([23]), ([24]).(KIENGIR (talk) 16:05, 2 June 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Ymblanter suggests ANI, but I’m not sure it’s risen to that level yet.—Ermenrich (talk) 18:48, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ermenrich:, certainly, as besides the last one the others been made before being blocked for the remarks against you...we'll see..(KIENGIR (talk) 18:55, 2 June 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Hello, KIENGIR. You have new messages at Talk:Dej#Known as Deés in Hungary.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Bejnar (talk) 02:12, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

vandalism

Please rewiew it. Persons who are not impartial should not be on Wikipedia.

[[25]] 178.247.75.185 (talk) 18:20, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Only I noticed this message when the corresponding thread have been already closed...what concern's me as, you are a sock account..?(KIENGIR (talk) 06:13, 9 June 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Jobbik's new ideology, and new colors

Hello. I've seen, you reverted my edits on the Jobbik's page. Well, the Jobbik is not far-right party anymore. Why not ? Because Péter Jakab changed the Jobbik's ideology to centre-left and centre-right, and the Jobbik's color is turquoise, not white, red and green. Did you see the Jobbik's Facebook ? Well, they changed the party's color to turquoise, not black. I have proof, but not english, only hungarian language, if you speak hungarian. :) If you speak hungarian a little, you will see, Péter Jakab the Jobbik's new leader will join the hungarian left party coalition, like in the 2019 local elections in Hungary, and the 2020 Dunaújváros election, which Gergely Kálló is a Jobbik member, but the left parties supported him, and winned the election in Dunaújváros. Did you see the Our Homeland Movement (Mi Hazánk Mozgalom) party ? Well, the party is split form Jobbik, because the Mi Hazánk is radical right wing party, but in this Wikipedia is Far-right wing party, and in Hungarian Wikipedia is Radical right. :) So, let me show the proof, as you want it.

https://www.magyarhirlap.hu/belfold/20200520-ujabb-jobbik-lepes-a-baloldal-fele https://www.facebook.com/FideszHU/videos/baloldali-p%C3%A1rt-lett-a-jobbik/161627148563161/ https://mozgasterblog.hu/blog/a_jobbik_evek_ota_egyuttmukodik_a_baloldallal

There you go, 3 proofs, but not english, only hungarian. :) Have nice day! :) --TomFZ67 (talk) 15:41, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @TomFZ67:,

I speak Hungarian and I perfectly know the situation. The first source did not tell about party position, just the possible collaboration with the left. The facebook video is not a source, since a rival political party's allegations are as well about the collaboration of the left. Thirdly, blog sites are not reliable sources. Don't worry as soon as there will be - English or Hungarian - sources that would describe the change of party position and ideology, the change will be made. Until then, you may insert in the article's core the newest political events - i.e. collaboration with the left side. Have a nice day also!(KIENGIR (talk) 21:00, 9 June 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Posp68

I've started an enforcement case against Posp68 at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Posp68 if you have anything to add.--Ermenrich (talk) 18:08, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ermenrich:,

I'd likely to wait how he would defend him/herself in front of the Arbitration Committe by first instance (if he would, considering being not much active), so could not argue being a victim a collectively evil German-Hungarian action...apart from my sarcasm, check the recent edits in the Munich Agreement...again comes an Noway IP, and after the registered user on the same material..although you've already warned in case the two users are one and the same, logging in should be carried out...this concerns me...(KIENGIR (talk) 18:58, 14 June 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Fair enough. So far it doesn't look like they intend to defend themselves, but we'll see.--Ermenrich (talk) 19:01, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He's been topic banned. I suspect he'll break it though, so keep an eye out for the various IPs and probably Posp68 himself though.--Ermenrich (talk) 15:03, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ermenrich:, yes, I noticed, exactly the same I was thinking of...anyway now he/she can neither say the section is not accurate nor what he/she wanted is not represented...but of course we will not repeat or link the same to the power of n...(KIENGIR (talk) 15:52, 17 June 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Question of Kingdom of Croatia Status

Hi Kiengir. Being you are fairly familiar with Hungarian-Croaian history and relations, was the Kingdom of Croatia inside the Kingdom of Hungary? Looking at the map it seems Croatia was a separate kingdom ruled under Hungarian crown but not part of mainland Hungary as both kingdoms entered a union under Hungarian crown with Croatia maintaining Kingdom autonomy. So as the Leopold Ružička shows, one born in Kingdom of Croatia is also born in Kingdom of Hungary? Or would it be Hungarian Empire? I’m not to well educated on the governing order on the kingdoms. I assume anyone under the Hungarian crown would be deemed a Hungarian citizen despite Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia having their own parliamentary government? Also those born in Austria-Hungary, would they vary as Austrian or Hungarian? Though being Austria-Hungary was under the House of Habsburg would all be Austrian citizens? It’s really confusing to me how it works exactly. Haha. Perhaps you can help me understand? OyMosby (talk) 15:01, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @OyMosby:,

Sure,

- Yes Croatia have never been part of Hungary proper, it has been a separate country in personal union with Hungary.

- Will correct the Ružička page to Lands of the Crown of Saint Stephen, that is the correct answer to your question

- if you check the archives in the Nikola Tesla discussion page, check my entries with the discussion with DBbachmann, there it is sourced when this alleged common citizensip may have been introduced (between 1867-1900, exact date mentioned there), before only it would comply just to Kingdom of Hungary

- Yes, there were Austrian citizenship or Hungarian citizenship, never both, even dual citizenship was banned (House of Habsburg just held the Hungarian crown since a long time, but it has no connection to citizenship affairs, similarly to sovereignty or constitutional issues, which is regulated by the Diet or later Parliament of Hungary.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:20, 14 June 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The discussion is about the topic Leopold Ružička.

Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!

I recognize you as a "good faith" and knowledgeable editor, but I think we need outside help to resolve the dispute. Notrium (talk) 16:04, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

June 2020

Your recent editing history at Operation Barbarossa shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Nick-D (talk) 08:31, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick-D:,

This notification was too early, since the state of edit warring would be only clear in case I'd done further reverts, that obviously I would not without having discussion and resolution.(KIENGIR (talk) 13:52, 25 June 2020 (UTC))[reply]

You know this isn’t true, you can’t lie your way out of this, you have been doing the same to me and I have proof. - 2A02:C7F:1484:5500:CCC4:5D8B:ED1D:C45F (talk) 01:16, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@2A02:C7F:1484:5500:CCC4:5D8B:ED1D:C45F:,

It is, and you should stop your disruption in this talk page and groundless accusations as well. Regarding your edits, I entered to the talk page, but instead of discussing, you continued the reverts, so the two case are not even identical but a in fact boomerang towards you.(KIENGIR (talk) 02:01, 10 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Cheile Bicazului

Your reason for undoing the recent edit on Bicaz Gorge (Cheile Bicazului) was "Apparently Cheile Bicazului in Harghita County, along with many related etc.".

My questions are:

• What proof/evidence you have that Bicaz Gorge belongs in Harghita county given the recent developments^[1] regarding the border between Harghita and Neamț counties?
• Why did you revert my edit if you're not sure about the subject?

LaZ0r (talk) 05:55, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @LaZ0r:,

• the current decision regaulates the most famous Cheile Bicazului narrow pass and 700 hectares of surrounding territory. The article encompasses Cheile Bicazului in broad term, that is along the border between the two counties, touching it both sides in fact (Cheile Bicazului-Hășmaș National Park, and other sites along the Bicaz river etc.).
• I was sure.(KIENGIR (talk) 13:53, 27 June 2020 (UTC))[reply]

References

1. "Ministry of Justice Court Portal". Retrieved 27 June 2020.

Thanks

Thank you for your work regarding the recent spate of edits from IP address 192.252.233.162. I reverted him on John von Neumann, but I didn't really have the heart or the knowledge to deal with his other edits. You seem to have dealt with this well. Eleuther (talk) 19:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Eleuther:

at your service! Despite what you say, I congratulate you since you precisely tried to decipher the subject and you suceeded to solve the equation in the article! Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 23:55, 8 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Disruptive Edits about Croatia

Please don’t remove Croatia again, the two pretenders are valid as can be seen in the source provided. The Habsburgs were independently Kings of Croatia, thus Karl von Habsburg being a pretender. Aimone, Duke of Aosta was briefly King of an independent Croatia and thus his son Amedeo is a pretender.

The source states this and thus no discussion is needed. I request that you look at the definition of pretend on the talk page as it proves you to be wrong, so don’t go accusing me of trying to start an edit war when it is you who keeps undoing helpful and constructive edits to the page. - 2A02:C7F:1484:5500:CCC4:5D8B:ED1D:C45F (talk) 22:03, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@2A02:C7F:1484:5500:CCC4:5D8B:ED1D:C45F:

Sorry, discussion is needed per policy, and you started edit warring.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Explain how a discussion is needed, the source provided states in exact words that those two people are pretenders to the Croatian throne. Per policy they should stay in the list. You started an edit war by removing valid information. A quick look through your talk pages shows a history of disruptive edits, sockpuppetry, block evasion, edit warring and general rudeness to admins and fellow editors. - 2A02:C7F:1484:5500:CCC4:5D8B:ED1D:C45F (talk) 22:25, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@2A02:C7F:1484:5500:CCC4:5D8B:ED1D:C45F:,

I already explained to you in the article's talk page, and you apparently don't know our policies, hence your statement is false. No, I did not start any edit war, I legally reverted a bold edit. You are totally on the wrong path, regarding my talk page I suffered from other user's disruptive edits and general rudeness sometimes, as sockpuppetry/block evasion has nothing to do with me, if not others who engaged in this talk page. Care on the content.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:35, 9 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR:,

You never explained how a discussion is needed, if you still claim you did then link it here or repeat your exact words. The source I provided says in exact words that they are both pretenders to the throne, I fail to understand why you are unable to comprehend fact and simple English.

Also on 25 June 2020 you received a message in this very talk page telling you “Your recent editing history at Operation Barbarossa shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war“, so please don’t try to lie, we all know exactly what you are and that you can’t be trusted to edit. - 2A02:C7F:1484:5500:CCC4:5D8B:ED1D:C45F (talk) 23:19, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@2A02:C7F:1484:5500:CCC4:5D8B:ED1D:C45F:,

Sorry, just because you are careless does not mean i.e. I would not understand simpe English. So read back again, I already explained to you in the article's talk page, and there it is linked, so it is ridiculous you mention lying, which I did not. On the other hand, it totally irrelevant to mix this issue with others (i.e., you just copy-paste or read content as well, again?), and I suggest you to avoid such unprofessional and frivolous statements like we all know exactly what you are and that you can’t be trusted to edit, this has nothing to with the reality.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:32, 9 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

You never replied to me in the talk page, everyone can see you are lying, you are pathetic, you have already been in trouble with the admins for quite some time. You have stopped undoing my edit because you know you will only get in further trouble that will result in you getting permanently banned from editing anything on Wikipedia ever again, you are totally untrustworthy and incapable of being an editor. Everyone can see you are lying, everyone knows you didn’t reply on the talk page and that’s because you have no answer, you can’t give a valid reason why correct information shouldn’t appear in the page, because you are wrong. The more you argue with me the more trouble you get in and the longer your block will be if you get lucky and the block isn’t permanent which is unlikely. If you ever start an edit war or undo any constructive edits from any editor in any page you will instantly be permabanned, do you understand me?

I already know what you will try and lie about, this is not a “personal attack” this is a warning to improve your behaviour, a chance for you to be allowed to retain editing rights. - 2A02:C7F:1484:5500:CCC4:5D8B:ED1D:C45F (talk) 01:12, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@2A02:C7F:1484:5500:CCC4:5D8B:ED1D:C45F:,

let's see the facts:

"You never replied to me in the talk page, everyone can see you are lying, you are pathetic" & " Everyone can see you are lying, everyone knows you didn’t reply on the talk page and that’s because you have no answer, you can’t give a valid reason why correct information shouldn’t appear in the page, because you are wrong." -> Contrary what you say, here is the evidence: ([26])

"You have stopped undoing my edit because you know you will only get in further trouble that will result in you getting permanently banned from editing anything on Wikipedia ever again," & "If you ever start an edit war or undo any constructive edits from any editor in any page you will instantly be permabanned, do you understand me?" -> I know and follow our policies, contrary to you, who continously prove it's ignorance about them

"The more you argue with me the more trouble you get in and the longer your block will be if you get lucky and the block isn’t permanent which is unlikely." -> I am not in any trouble

"I already know what you will try and lie about, this is not a “personal attack” this is a warning to improve your behaviour, a chance for you to be allowed to retain editing rights. -" -> But, yes, you did a serious personal attacks and accusations, you should maintain some civility instead of talking nonsense.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

All your responses here are lies, all you have to do I scroll up and you are instantly proven wrong and a liar. Disagreeing with you is not a personal attack. From scrolling back it is obvious as others have pointed out that you are part of a far-right neo-nazi political party in Hungary who hates every country that borders them, which includes Croatia. This explains why you are going out if you way to erase Croatia’s history as being in personal union with, but fully independent from Hungary. Multiple users have pointed this out so stop lying about it or I will permanently ban you from editing any page ever again. You already have multiple warnings from admins about Sock-puppetry and edit warring, which you have tried to lie your way out of, all you have to do is scroll back through this talk page and you will see it.

My source proves you wrong, I am right, you are wrong. Accept it and move in or I will personally permaban you, this is your final warning. Stop being rude, threatening me, personally attacking me, sockpuppeting, block evading, edit warring, historical revisioning and all you other crimes. I will only say this one last time, you clearly can’t be trusted to edit in Wikipedia, you show repeated misconduct and either lack of regard or lack of comprehension for the rules, you don’t seem to understand or care that you are doing anything wrong. If you don’t not clean up you behaviour I will permanently ban you. I will personally permanently ban you.

You have one last chance, one more wrong step and you will never be allowed to edit again, so start taking this seriously and start admitting when you are wrong. - 2A02:C7F:1484:5500:CCC4:5D8B:ED1D:C45F (talk) 02:26, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, this discussion is over. I've never lied, you should apologize also for your statement regarding the talk page, etc. Nobody said disagreeing would be a personal attack, diversive arguments will not save you of the consequences what you commited. It is obvious you superficially assume things you did not check, I am not a member of any party, I don't hate any country, on the contrary I imroved many articles regarding Croatia and I collaborate with Croatian editors with mutual respect and peace, as usual. Sorry, here only you are rude, I did not threat you with anything, never attacked you, never commited sock-puppetry/block evading, etc. Btw. accusing others of what mainly you are doing is really harmful and disruptive, a huge WP:BOOMERANG.(KIENGIR (talk) 03:02, 10 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

far-left politics

Hey, have you ever looked at the far-left politics article, I think it's a dogs breakfast, and it's crazy that communism, Marxism-Leninism, Stalinism etc are not discussed at all. would you be interested in taking a look at the article? Bacondrum (talk) 23:47, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Bacondrum:,

Yes, unfortunately you are totally right, let's make it together! Cheers.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:50, 9 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Sure thing. Do you have any good books you'd recommend that cover the subject. I have a lot of books on the Soviet Union and such, but none of them really explicitly discuss their political position in a relevant manner. Bacondrum (talk) 00:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Bacondrum:,

well, I don't have modern printed books unfortunately on this subject - though I have a lot on others - we may look for ones or search online works.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:56, 10 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

There's also the effort involved in re-reading such horrific history! Books like Anne Applebaums Gulag: a History certainly cover the horrors of the Soviet Union (I was mildly traumatized by the end of this book), but not the ideology, same with the Mukhamet Shayakhmetov's The Silent Steppe (another harrowing book) and Lynne Viola's The Unknown Gulag (this offers a timeline of the destruction of the Kulaks, frequently referring to the Bolsheviks - surely we don't need to cite that the Bolsheviks are far-left? or am I wrong about that). I feel like the fact that this all took place under a Marxist-Leninist government should mean it can be written about as such without being deemed original research, they are simply historic facts and any reasonable person can make the connection without it being explicitly stated - surely it is common knowledge that they are on the extreme left? Same with the Shining Path and the Khmer Rouge. What do you think? I feel like a number of editors at far-left politics really struggle with the discrepancy between their own view of Marxism-Leninism and what history books tell us. Bacondrum (talk) 01:09, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Bacondrum:

You are right there are some left-devoted editors who try to whitewash the crimes of Communism and restrict and narrow interpretations and crimes, but you should not afraid of them just go on with your edits! Yes, Bolsheviks are far-left, WP:SKYBLUE. No worries just go on, Marxism-Leninism is the essence of far-left, etc. Same with examples, Khmer Rouge is famous of horror/terror, etc.(KIENGIR (talk) 02:13, 10 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I tried that https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Far-left_politics&oldid=948431446 to no avail. Just got in an edit war. Bacondrum (talk) 02:58, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Bacondrum:,

then you should open a new discussion, or an RFC because I consider fully valid your former additions. A result of an RFC i.e. will be be binding.(KIENGIR (talk) 03:07, 10 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Simply wanted to inform that no, Marxist-Leninism the regime practiced in USSR is in fact not communism. Communism merits the ownership of production which the USSR did not practice. It is hasty to condemn Marxism-Leninism as far left since it also had clear authoritarian lines. I will agree with the fact that it provided left wing rethoric but the USSR was not communist. Chefs-kiss (talk) 22:24, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for July 10

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Vlachs

Hello, in your exit here I could not find this in the book by Tanner. Where did you cite this from? Thanks OyMosby (talk) 16:14, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@OyMosby:, hi, it has been part of the page earlier I restored content on that edit. But as I see you went forward without waiting my answer...(KIENGIR (talk) 12:30, 13 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I went forward as I can quite easily see that it is not in the source cited. I wanted to see with you were you may have seen the content you reverted sourced. Also sorry about the PoV comment it wasn’t so much for you really. But seeing two editors return content Rhat was explained to not be sourced properly seemed weird. OyMosby (talk) 17:49, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive editing/bad grammar Hungarians in Romania

Really? LordAgincourt (talk) 14:19, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@LordAgincourt:,

I said bad grammar:

- Such like Koloz do not exist, but Kolozs, Temesvár instead of Temesvar, and as I referred to the edit log, Austria-Hungary came to existence only in 1867.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:36, 13 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Talk:Authoritarianism/Totalitarianism

Just to clarify regarding this, that makes no sense. You should have replied me about the fascism addition in the below discussion; the above discussion was about categories. I think I did not understand at first what you meant, but I guess your problem with my addition was that it was not in the main body and so it should not have been in the lead? Either way, I did put it in the main body, so I hope at least this dispute is done. As for the rest, could you please explain me about consensus since you keep writing I do not understand it? Maybe it is because I distinguish between implicit and explicit consensus? Implicit consensus is when an addition remains in the main body for a long time (as no one has changed or removed that, it is assumed there is implicit consensus) while explicit consensus is when a discussion has been held in the talk page and consensus has been reached. What I see was implicit, not explicit consensus; however, I do dispute there was some implicit consensus because on both pages the category was added and removed back and forth, meaning there was a dispute and not all users agreed with this implicit consensus, so a discussion should have been opened as soon as there was this edit warring rather than reverting every time someone removed it. Better late than never though. So now we are having this discussion to establish explicit consensus.

P.S. Why do you keep removing any mention of Marxism–Leninism? That was the official or state ideology of Communist states. Maoism, Titoism et al were simply national variants of Marxism–Leninism (Marxism–Leninism adapted to material conditions). Since the sentence is explicitly referring to that, I do not see anything wrong in clarifying that. Not all communist are Marxist–Leninists and many communist parties have reformed or are democratic. Yes, anti-communism opposes all communist parties, but that sentence was explicitly about states governed by Marxist–Leninist communist parties and Marxism–Leninism was their official ideology, not merely communism; indeed, they considered their to be the only true communism or Marxism. We should not imply they are right about this.--Davide King (talk) 13:00, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it makes, since the issue have been already raised and under discussion above. Yes it's done (the rest as well I already explained). Yes, explicit and implicit consensus also exist, but they are equally binding. Given a long time the category was present without debate, your observation about disputing "implicit" consensus is false, since just recently there was one editor disputing it and the discussion has been immediately opened as well in the talk page. Thus explicit consensus is only necessary for removal.

P.S., I don't remove any mention of it. That sentence is a general statement and does not select necessarily between any subtypes, it's naturally meant opposing all types of Communism.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:29, 14 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Just because the user or IP who reverted the addition did not also open a discussion at the time, it does not imply the consensus remains. I do not think the implicit consensus is there, for more users are expressing doubt about it. Now it is still there just because you edit warred my proposal to follow BDR. Since users and IP did revert the addition in the first place, it cannot be told there was an implicit consensus, for there was a dispute from the beginning and it remained just because a discussion was not opened. So your claim that Given a long time the category was present without debate is false because it was actually disputed, but it was edit-warred into remaining because no one opened a discussion; maybe the user or IP who did revert that did not know about talk pages or was too new. A discussion has finally been opened, so better late than never, but that should have been opened when the disputed first happened. Is there a guideline that says explicit consensus is only necessary for removal? No, only the first part (Anti-communism is a political movement and ideology opposed to communism) is a general statement. The second part (It has been prominent in resistance movements against communism under socialist states governed by communist parties throughout history) is more specific.--Davide King (talk) 19:33, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, your first sentence I don't understand, you are inventing a scenario I even did not say or imply or has nothing to do with what I said. But yes, implicit consensus is holding, it has been untouched over a month - in the first place, later "expressing doubts" has nothing to do with this, and just because some users did not open talk does not influence this (anyway the talk has been opened early, over 4 months ago). Please don't twist the happenings, I did not edit war you, you were edit warring despite you were informed quickly. You should just put to an end of such speculations, I repeat a former consensus can be changed by a new consensus, shall it be any kind of edit. Second part: maybe more specific, but not exclusive.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:13, 14 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I am just saying that as soon as it was first reverted, a discussion should have been opened by either the two involved users or someone else, so that explicit consensus would have been reached already and all of this could have been avoided. This is all beside the point now; the body does not support communism as a category (for that we would need something like the phrasing I added about fascism on Authoritarianism), only Stalinism and Maoisim. A central concept used in categorizing articles is that of the defining characteristics of a subject of the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently define. I believe this is pretty clear. I know you are going to disagree, so let us not waste time discussing things again. That is besides the point because at Authoritarianism it is only you supporting communism as a category; and at Totalitarianism is again only you and Rjensen. Oh, and before you tell me, I know Wikipedia:Consensus is not a vote but their arguments have been valid and respect the policy guidelines. And yeah, I am actually willing to change my mind, but so far I was not convinced by your arguments and obviously you were not convinced by mine.

Basically, yours and Rjensen argument boils down to use Raymond Aron's definition, but Aron actually say Soviet communism, not communism; and no one is disputing that the Soviet Union or Hungary were totalitarian, although some say it was authoritarian before Stalin and reverted back to authoritarianism post-Stalin (that is, only the Soviet Union; Stalinist Hungary was still totalitarian), but Aron is not saying communism is totalitarian or that communism is a core characteristic of totalitarianism and vice versa. So you are doing original research and synthesis. You and Rjensen are basically saying communism means communist state and so communism is totalitarian. So we get to the absurd logic where anti-state communists like the Free Territory of Ukraine or the Zapatistas are not communists because [o]nly governments in TOTAL control can be TOTALitarian. Zapaitista movement is not a government and it's probably not "communist".

This is also reflected in how you conflate communist parties and communist states. That was very specific and clearly referring to the Marxist–Leninist regimes, i.e. the Communist states whose party and state ideology was not merely communism but Marxism–Leninism. Communist parties did govern in some coalitions in Western Europe and their countries were not socialist states. That was clearly referring to the states of the Soviet Bloc, i.e. Marxist–Leninist communist parties. Of course, anti-communists oppose all types of communist parties, but in that case it is clearly referring to the Soviet Bloc and their ideology was Marxism–Leninism, so there was nothing wrong with that. It did not imply anti-communists support other communist parties because the context is about the Soviet Bloc. Davide King (talk) 00:44, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the question when and who what should have done is rather philosophical. You repeated again your opinion, you forget not all persons who participated in the discussions agreed with you or even did not express any opinion right now, so your summarization flaws. You basically grab the argumentation of categorization by denying the subject of the article, which include Communism, meanwhile debating Rjensens sourcing and releated, that you should anyway discuss with him.

Again, you repeat yourself lengthy, despite your observation is a generally meant sentence in not an exclusive way. "so let us not waste time discussing things again" -> I never pushed such, I just answered to you.(KIENGIR (talk) 16:08, 15 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

The subject does not include communism, it includes Marxism–Leninism and Stalinism; it also includes capitalist regimes and totalitarian capitalism, but I do not see you arguing we add Capitalism. As things stand, I still see more users arguing for removal from both articles; the discussion is still ongoing and that may well change, but I suggest you not to think you are right by default.--Davide King (talk) 00:20, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see discussed and mentioned Communism, as also what you have listed is part of it.(KIENGIR (talk) 16:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Again, they are discussing a very specific type of communism, so why not simply list those? Your view that they are related is not enough to justify it; per WP:DEFCAT, it needs to be a defining characteristic. Only fascism, Italian Fascism, Nazism and Stalinism may ✓ that per sources.--Davide King (talk) 13:46, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again, you are circling back to your own views and interpretations, that have been already answered, just you ignore it, regarding sources, catdef and other users, etc., may be read above, and all related discussions.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:50, 17 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I disagree and I believe you are doing the exact same thing. I asked you a simple question: where do you get this categories may be added even by partial relation from? Again, I believe WP:DEFCAT is self-explanatory.--Davide King (talk) 02:56, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think there is no need to repeat your question multiple places and multiple instances. You seem to confusing things. Pages are put into categories. Categories are relating to the pages, even more categories that are not one and the same necessarily. These categories may relate of the article wholly or partially. Catdef is not contradicting this.(KIENGIR (talk) 04:00, 23 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Let us agree to disagree. WP:DEFCAT contradicts your claim that mere relation is enough; and even if you were right, that may still be not enough because perhaps Communist state or their actual state ideology would be more appropriate or enough. I hope the other users can reply you back there better than I could. So I will just wait for their replies (maybe some have changed their mind and agree with you, or they still believe it should be removed, etc.) and maybe open a request for comments.--Davide King (talk) 15:58, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We do have Category:Communist states, so why not use that instead?--Davide King (talk) 20:57, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Considerable, but let's discuss further in the article's talk page and let this thread to end.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:15, 27 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

PIE

The article says that PIE was spoken thousands of years ago. If PIE were only a modern reconstruction, it would be impossible for it to have been spoken thousands of years ago. Of course, the article is primarily about the reconstructed language, not about the reconstruction. --ExperiencedArticleFixer (talk) 20:52, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ExperiencedArticleFixer:,

no, the articles says PIE is estimated to have been spoken.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:55, 16 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Yes, all the same: it couldn't be estimated to have been spoken thousands of years ago if it were only a modern reconstruction. --ExperiencedArticleFixer (talk) 08:39, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ExperiencedArticleFixer:,

No, not the same, an unverified hyphothesis obviously may be interpolated by a modern reconstruction (though both are hyphothesis').(KIENGIR (talk) 19:54, 17 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I cannot make sense of your last answer, but the conversation continued in the Talk page. --ExperiencedArticleFixer (talk) 23:46, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Unexplained removal of content at Hungarian Revolution of 1956

Hello, I'm 91.127.237.140. I noticed that you recently removed content from Hungarian Revolution of 1956 without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. The next time you unilaterally revert a different editor's additions, please cite a legitimate and justified reason in the edit summary. Thank you. 91.127.237.140 (talk) 16:37, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop adding controversial material to articles.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:43, 22 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Hungarian Revolution of 1956, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. If you only meant to make a test edit, please use your sandbox for that. Your continued inability to explain the rationale behind your reverts is a absolutely horrible way to conduct yourself as a Wikipedian. Unless you have a legitimate policy-based objection to the sourced content, cease reverting it at once. 78.99.186.113 (talk) 03:30, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You should end this comedy with misleading statements, I followed all poicies and give you legitimate explanations.(KIENGIR (talk) 03:38, 23 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

András Kovács (sociologist)

I've made Category:Central European University faculty a subcategory of Category:People from Budapest. Wont that do? I dont think there will be enough sociologists from Budapest to justify a category.Rathfelder (talk) 21:32, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:,

well, in that case it's fine, made the self-revert. Thank You.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:35, 24 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

• Am I right to think most of these academics would live in Budapest?Rathfelder (talk) 21:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:, possibly, but we don't know what is their official residence in their papers (cold be communes, cities outside Budapest, but may reside in Budapest as a temporary address, etc.), however it has been never an issue or anyone really cared, surely they are concentrated near Budapest.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:43, 24 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

André Deutsch

Migrating from Austria does not make a person a British person of Hungarian-Jewish descent. Their children are of Hungarian descent. They are Hungarian. - or possibly naturalised. My father was on the Isle of Man with him. Rathfelder (talk) 17:47, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:,

it may be arguable, because if he became a Britsh citizen, then it holds (as no difference from other British citizens). But explain me an other, why at Baron Ladislaus Müller von Szentgyörgy Category:Hungarian expatriates in Japan has been removed? Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 17:54, 26 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

And also why by Loránd Eötvös the Hungarian educators category was removed? Thanks

• All the ambassador categories should be in the expatriate categories, because its in the nature of an ambassador to be an expat. The article doesnt say Deutsch became a British citizen, but even if he did (as is likely), I dont think that makes him a British person of Hungarian-Jewish descent. I think all my immigrant neighbours children are British people of various descents, but I dont think the migrants themselves are properly so described. I certainly wouldnt describe my dad as a British person of German descent, but I would describe myself as such. Rathfelder (talk) 18:04, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:,

Well, there are myriads of Hungarian Americans who were not born in the U.S. but they are Americans of H-J descent, since Americans are American citizens, so I would keep. But what about Eötvös and the Hungarian educators?(KIENGIR (talk) 18:13, 26 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

• All university faculty categories are subcategories of Academics. "Educator" categories are generally for people not at universities. Rathfelder (talk) 19:59, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Invitation

You've been invited to this noticeboard here. BattleshipMan (talk) 16:01, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reverting

No, but reverting without explanation an explained edit can look like that. But never mind now, thanks for getting convinced! 151.177.57.31 (talk) 17:16, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@151.177.57.31:,

can look like and mean are not the same thing. Ok, cheers.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:25, 29 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Category:Nobility from Vienna

Membership of this category does not say anything about whether people are Austrian, Hungarian, or anything else. It just means they are from Vienna. They pretty much all are in some other category such as Category:Kings of Hungary. In the same way people in Category:People from London may not be British - indeed many of them aren't. Locality and nationality overlap as far as categorisation is concerned. Rathfelder (talk) 20:11, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:,

if you further go up in the categorization tree, there will be no "place" for non-Austrian subjects/nationals. Similarly, Nobility from Vienna category not any means may infer being part of the Hungarian nobility, thus the category is not replaceble/coverable with the previous one.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:18, 4 August 2020 (UTC))[reply]

The same is true for, for example, Category:Musicians from London. Categorisation does not work like that. Rathfelder (talk) 21:12, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:,

not necessarily, depends on the structure or buildup, but such categories should not be removed which the other added one does not cover it (if not others already define that in that article, etc.). E.g., in our initial conversation you assumed Category:Central European University faculty will be dealing people from Budapest, although it is not sure for everybody. On such ground, similar assumptions should not be a ground for mass category changings and removals, as referred, since the concept is originally mistaken (at one or two instances the estimation may be adequate if some numbers are not eligible for an own category as you reflected, but what we are discussing know is not that case).(KIENGIR (talk) 21:20, 4 August 2020 (UTC))[reply]

But the case your raised, György Festetics, is in Category:Festetics family, which is in Category:Hungarian noble families. Including him in Category:Nobility from Vienna , rather than Category:People from Vienna does not affect his relationship to Hungary. Clearly he appears to have both been born and died in Vienna. The articles doesnt say anything about where he spent his life. Rathfelder (talk) 21:29, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:,

well, in that case the category Hungarian nobility may be removed, as it is covered by another category, but it still does not make him an Austrain noble.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:34, 4 August 2020 (UTC))[reply]

But that is the point I am making. Nobility from Vienna may not be Austrian nobles. "From Vienna" is about geography, not descent. Rathfelder (talk) 21:39, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:,

but if you go upwards, it is a subcategory of another which is linked to the Austrian people category.(21:43, 4 August 2020 (UTC))

All the "People from .... categories are like that. People from Vienna are not all Austrian. Rathfelder (talk) 19:13, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:,

that's what I am talking about, but itis the subcat of Category:People by city in Austria & Category:People by state in Austria, which are in the Austrian people category...you see?(KIENGIR (talk) 21:57, 5 August 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Exactly. That is the policy. Same is true of all People by city categories. They may not be citizens of the country where the city is, but that does not mean they are not from the city. From is ambiguous. Rathfelder (talk) 22:01, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:,

not really, Austrian people is the problematic part on this, since contrary to your argumentation this excludes non-Austrian citizens...(KIENGIR (talk) 22:32, 5 August 2020 (UTC))[reply]

• It doesnt. In every country there are plenty of people who are properly categorised as "From a city" who are not citizens of the country. There is no point in arguing with me about this. Rathfelder (talk) 22:42, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:, as long it is boundled in a way with the Austrian people category, your argumentation is not necessarily flawless.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:48, 5 August 2020 (UTC))[reply]

• Categorisation is not an exact science. Rathfelder (talk) 22:49, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:, though it should be consistent and follow some logic which is part of science. One of the weakest part of WP is the categorization, their naming and consistency, including with logical relations in all directions. So please do not be surprized I try to improve them time by time, as other parts they will/needs to be better. Cheers.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:56, 5 August 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Nomination of Illyrian_(South_Slavic) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Illyrian_(South_Slavic) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Illyrian_(South_Slavic) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Zixt2010 (talk) 14:52, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jasz people

Hi Kiengir. I appreciate what you have done with this edit as you have clearly sought to remove what may appear to be verbiage. Before I added it, I had to think about what I wrote. Hungary's borders since the 13th century have been very elastic and this includes a period when the state was altogether off the map as well as a time it was in union with Austria. Even that latter time it held more internal territory than it does today. As there are no Jasz outside of Hungary's contemporary borders I feel it better to reflect this detail, and know of no other way to impart the information. --Coldtrack (talk) 05:40, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Coldtrack:,

thank you, however I never thought your addition to be a verbiage, my intention was better not to restrict to present time, since the occurence of the Jász people dates back much earlier, hence due to what you said now, the unlinking was the best option (btw, precisely Hungary neither been altogether off, nor had union with Austria). About the positioning, don't worry since the next sentence already discuss where they mostly have been found. Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 13:12, 9 August 2020 (UTC))[reply]

A Chance for You

I am going to give you a chance to tell the truth and avoid embarrassment. — 2a02:c7f:1484:5500:3076:e0b0:be10:c797 (talk) 18:21, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, thanks, I already did more times.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:43, 21 August 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Apponyi family

I undid your undoing of my recent edits. I acknowledge your strong feelings, but please keep in mind that I created that content in the first place initially with Hungarian first names, so this reflects my own evolving thought process about best practices, not any set-in-stone position on my side. So please continue reading.

My recent changes stem from the realization that until the late 19th century Hungarian aristocrats like the Apponyis did use different versions of their first name depending of context, e.g. go with Lajos in Hungary and Ludwig in Vienna and Louis in France or in diplomatic correspondence. So having their name in English in an English-language article would have been their choice, and we should respect that. Or in Latin, but even they might have found that artificial.

This of course does not apply to names that are uniquely Hungarian, such as Géza or Gyula (which as I learned does not come from Julius). I have not tried to translate these.

I hope we don't keep that a pointless editing war. You must accept that this article is written from an international perspective, not solely a Hungarian one, let alone a nationalistic one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boubloub (talk • contribs) 13:13, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Apponyi family

I undid your undoing of my recent edits. I acknowledge your strong feelings, but please keep in mind that I created that content in the first place initially with Hungarian first names, so this reflects my own evolving thought process about best practices, not any set-in-stone position on my side. So please continue reading.

My recent changes stem from the realization that until the late 19th century Hungarian aristocrats like the Apponyis did use different versions of their first name depending of context, e.g. go with Lajos in Hungary and Ludwig in Vienna and Louis in France or in diplomatic correspondence. So having their name in English in an English-language article would have been their choice, and we should respect that. Or in Latin, but even they might have found that artificial.

This of course does not apply to names that are uniquely Hungarian, such as Géza or Gyula (which as I learned does not come from Julius). I have not tried to translate these.

I hope we don't keep that a pointless editing war. You must accept that this article is written from an international perspective, not solely a Hungarian one, let alone a nationalistic one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boubloub (talk • contribs) 13:15, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Boubloub:,

Strong feelings? What are you taling about? The problem is you not just followed your new policy on names that may have been used differently, but also those times you put Anglicized name when it definetly did not exist, could not exist, etc. So, in the article's talk page you should present at every instance in which you may successfully demonstrate the name has been used other form than in Hungarian (not necessarily English, but if German, then German or Latin etc. (to say nothing of from the article's core you systematically removed Hungarian names and changed the same may at many errouneus instances.

It just's depends on you, I follow our policies. This article is written by consensus, from a neutral perspective, there has not been any nationalistic issue here, not even it was solely Hungarian since the other names has been as well indicated, try to concentrate on the details.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:27, 31 August 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR:,

For Apponyi family members before the late 19th century I am not aware of any primary contemporaneous source documents in Hungarian. See all the documents referenced in the article's notes. I suspect that Anthonius Georgius Apponyi was almost never referred to in writing as Antal Györgyi during his lifetime. Even at a much later stage, Countess Marguerite Apponyi was named Margit only in very specific contexts if at all (my family owns an autograph letter from her btw - I doubt she would have liked being referred to as Margit in an English-language context). Thus, an contrary to my own choice when first drafting this content, I have come to the conclusion displaying their first names as primarily in Hungarian is ahistorical and misleading. Please tell me what you think.

For the Apponyis before the mid-19th century, most contemporary source materials are in Latin or German. For readability I believe using English is better than either, and conforms to established best practices when referring to nobility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boubloub (talk • contribs) 15:38, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Boubloub:,

Again, if you are sure as the two instances mentioned here a form has been used extensively, then at the titles you may put it on the first place and the Hungarian the second, but no need to list all versions. On the other hand, just because we are in cases earlier than the mid-19th century, it does not automatically means Hungarian would be ahistorical, since i.e. Latin was just the form of administraton, but not used in the real life, but also later the same happened, regarding bitth papers and administration up to the end of the 19th century. Readability at this point has nothing to with inventing fake English names, like John Apponyi which have never existed, blind Anglicization is misleading.(KIENGIR (talk) 16:03, 31 August 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR:

Thanks - I take that as constructive. We do disagree on policy - this in an article in English, so John Apponyi makes sense because had Janos/Johannes Apponyi gone to the English King's court that's how he would have introduced himself. (These people were deeply multilingual, with few exceptions to the end of the Habsburg Monarchy.) Btw this view of mine is in line with general Wikipedia policy, as countless articles on non-Hungarians demonstrate.

But we can agree to disagree on that and still find a practical way out. I will take a further look at source documents and apportion Hungarian, Latin or German names accordingly. (Not immediately though - I have other things to do now.)

@Boubloub:

In the English WP there are yes many article where Anglicization applied, and many other when not, it depends on the context, reference, widely usage or, it has any specific connection or mention particularly regarding the Anglo-Saxon culture, etc.. I would as well dounbt the subject would introduce himself as John, but would use the most common name he uses.

Ok, but present at every instance in the talk page, so they can be reviewed, thus we may choose the best option if more. Thanks(KIENGIR (talk) 22:44, 31 August 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR:

I won't do it in talk page, nothing justifies that effort. There should be no presumption either way - Hungarian, German, or Latin - anyway. But you'll be able to check the referenced material in the notes.

Heads of Government who have been jailed

Hi I just went on the jailed government leaders page and saw that all the edits that you, and others, had made recently had been reverted. I noticed that you were on of the last editors to edit there and The article is now without any references and is filled with BLP issues as it accuses people, without sources, of various crimes. I was wondering if you might re-add all the sources information that seems to have been deleted so that it’s not filled with violations. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.132.245.250 (talk) 15:44, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@82.132.245.25:,

I think you should go on with that. I edited the article before, if you choose any of the stable versions I reset, could be a good beginning, but as well I did not check the article one-by-one to check all the validity, just what arbitrarily came into my attention. Also check the talk page, there I raised my concerns.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:52, 1 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Hello there

Can you stop disrespecting the Romanians on Wikipedia, all the time? Who wrote that misery of an article? Are we at the history hour or what? Everytime you shit on the Romanians and mock them. You will only make the whole city and the Romanian ethnics to hate you. It is too much detailing and offensive history. Let's seee what what I edited:

• Nagyvárad (Oradea) in 1910 was a prosperous city in the Kingdom of Hungary, with a 90% Hungarian population. (is this the Hungarian history book? should I also say Transylvania had important majority in Transylvania? tell me, only your sources are good? will you also remove that? I am simply showing you the article is very subjective)
• against the Kolozsvár (Cluj-Napoca) railway workers’ club KVSC (I said just against KVSC)
• Nagyvárad found itself 12 km beyond Hungary’s borders, and was now officially called Oradea, but the club and the city were still dominated by Hungarians. (again... history!? plus it mentioned and against mention a large number of Hungarian players)
• Transylvanian teams joined the Romanian national championship in 1921–22 (I said IT JOINED, too much detailing)
• the vast majority of whom were, incidentally, ethnic Hungarians, Jews and Germans. (mockery and discrimination against Romanians, I said "During the interwar period CAO supplied eighteen Romanian internationals, including ethnic Hungarians, Jews and Germans."
• Thanks to the Bucharest chief of police ’s misuse of funds for his club Venus București, Bodola was transferred to the capital in 1937. (another huge mockery against Romania, I said "Bodola was transferred to Venus București in the Romanian capital in 1937." and it's enough; our newspapers don't agree with yours, and even if you can find something like that, the article is about CAO)
• Romania was in the throes of its own right-wing military dictatorship. (ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Do you support these lies? Antonescu was not a real fascist but a military dictator, I said "under military dictatorship". He needed a party at least to govern, and nobody wanted to do it, the fascists came and they only had 15%. And at war. These are the Russian lies that Romania was fascist. Sure he supported the policies of Hitler, but in fact he had war with the fascists also.).
• About Gyula Lóránt, if you want to say he is from Western Hungary and more about his career, you can do it on his page.
• Again, no need to repeat history (I wrote "headed back to Oradea in the 1940s", instead of "he headed back to Oradea after the annexation of northern Transylvania by Hungary in 1940"; YOU ARE LUCKY I DID NOT DELETE THE WHOLE EXTRA MATERIAL)
• Spielmann was German, not Hungarian, I tried to make connection between cultural ethnicities
• "Nicolae Simatoc, a reserve, was the only ethnic Romanian in the NAC squad; he was kept out of the starting line-up by the all-Timișorean midfield of Petschovschi, Demetrovits and Juhász. Simatoc, known as Miklós Szegedi in Hungary, would go on to spend one season alongside Kubala at FC Barcelona, as well as two years at Inter Milan." (again mockery of a Romanian etchnic, making him inferior, I said "Romanian national team player Nicolae Simatoc would go on to spend one season alongside Kubala at FC Barcelona, as well as two years at Inter Milan.")
• Etc etc

Some users have transformed the page into a Hungarian one, can you still talk about Romanian-Hungarian culture and friendship? I assume my edits are of good faith. I don't understand why you disrespect other users on Wikipedia, when I explained well why. I hope you assume I am on of a good faith and feel free to read my edits entirely.

Rostadia2012 (talk • contribs) 01:09, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rostadia2012:,

please avoid stating things that are not true, I don't disrespect anyone. The article's history is visible, and I don't know why you address those questions to me. As well you should avoid obscene language and defamating, offensive statement which are false..."offensive history"? What are you talking about?

- the article was not not subjective, just because you don't like some facts

- The club is inevitable part of the Hungarian history, and of course it had a large number of Hungarian players, what's your problem with that?

- no, there is not any mockery or discrimination against anyone, if that was the situation that time

- if there are more sources or conflicting sources, it may be added, but you should not delete others

- Sorry, you address these questions to the wrong person, you deny it has been a right-wing one?

- Gyula Lóránt is part of the club's history, no reason for removal

- I have no problem with small copyedits or simplifications, but you did too many mass changing and once, apperently deleting majority of material in connection with Hungarians

- Spielmann was Hungarian of ethnic German descent, later became a Romanian national, and after again Hungarian, then again Romania.

- again, it's not a mockery, but a fact, why it is bothering you?

Keep in mind just because you don't like some things, it's not a reason for removal.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:53, 2 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Did you at least bother to read my edits? Were all of good faith. No, it's very subjective, but again you don't even bother to read my lines/edits. The club is part of the Hungarian-Romanian culture (of both sides). How not? You call our player "reserve" in comparison to the Hungarians, but he ended playing for Barcelona and Inter Milan. Then you say some police chief of Bucharest was involved in misuse of funds. Spielmann was a German ethnic, you can agree. I called him German ethnic. "the vast majority of whom were, incidentally, ethnic Hungarians, Jews and Germans." Fair is it? You made Spielmann also Hungarian. You call him Hungarian but he played first of Romania, he was Hungarian just by birth. Plus I edited this proposition into "including ethnic Hungarians, Jews and Germans." Should I also add "many"? I will. But it's like the author/creator wants to make comparisons between ethnicities and to promote history.

I would like to see what it also bothers you. Rostadia2012 (talk • contribs) 02:05, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rostadia2012:,

yes, I read your edits, (otherwise how could I answer?). You apparently removed materials in connection with Hungarians widely, that did not seemed like that. Just because a player has been a reserve, and others were not, it's the decision of the coach, it does not mean the player was not good (any player starts as a reserve or is a reserve in a team, in other teams a leading star, etc.). Excuse me, not I say, I restored the article to it's previous state. What would we disagree on Spielmann? I modified the sentence you quoted. "You made Spielmann also Hungarian" -> Spielmann was a Hungarian-born, Hungarian national citizen, ethnic origin is another issue, so he can be called Hungarian, as any national of the country. Then he became a Romanian national, after again Hungarian, then again Romanian, so there is not any inaccuracy here (in his personal page he is identified as a Romanian footballer, so what?). Again, the sentence has been modified.

I've told you everything I wanted for now.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:16, 2 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Romani in Hungary

Hi, just a quick heads up, I don't know if you've noticed but you are on your second revert in under 24 hours on Romani people in Hungary. I've started a discussion on the talk page. Boynamedsue (talk) 23:10, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Boynamedsue:,

you are as well at the second revert, and I can still fairly revert you if you don't gain consensus.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:13, 3 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

That's not how WP:3RR works. Please discuss to reach consensus. Boynamedsue (talk) 23:17, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Boynamedsue:,

We are not discussing about WP:3RR, but you act in the opposite way you should, you have to gain consensus, since you altered the content.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:20, 3 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

We can discuss that elsewhere, this was just a friendly warning about reversion.Boynamedsue (talk) 23:25, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Boynamedsue:,

Ok, but quite odd you warn me for something you should have be better concerned, you started the discussion here.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:30, 3 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Commentary

Wikipedia should state what sources state. if you don't think the source is pertinent then comment on the talk page why; if you think the phrasing can be improved, try to improve it but strictly following the source, not other ideas; 3) if you do not like what the source states, bad thing.--Asqueladd (talk) 04:58, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Asqueladd:,

I used the source you added, and not my ideas, I even gave a you a direct link.(KIENGIR (talk) 05:01, 7 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

No. The content has an accompanying literal citation. "Until the late fifteenth century the idea of Europe was principally a geographical expression and subordinated to Christendom which was the dominant identity system in the West. The idea of Europe as the West began to be consolidated in the foreign conquests of the age of 'discovery" (...) "Europe then begins to shed itself of its association with Christendom and slowly becomes an autonomous discourse." (Delanty 1995, p. 30) Could you tell how your edit adhere best to that quote? How can this change be justified with the cited source: [27]? Because I think you can't. You have magically removed the Age of Discovery from the equation for reasons I am not yet able to ascertain.--Asqueladd (talk) 05:09, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Asqueladd:,

just read your own summarization, you simply cannot describe became detached from Christendom, not even that quotes approves that you present here. Did you check the link I presented from your own source? Your close praphrasing is the problem, while mine is appropriate explaining the situation, as it was just a kind of decline.(KIENGIR (talk) 05:17, 7 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

"detach from" is not a good approximation to "shed itself of its association from"? How so? Are you kidding? The point about why did you remove the Age of Discovery from the equation still remains, too. So far I don't think my edit had a "problem" that you may have solved in any way whatsoever. I think you have deviated from Delanty for unjustified reasons.--Asqueladd (talk) 05:21, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Asqueladd:,

I hope you properly understand what means detached, well it was certainly not, it was a slow process in more hundred years and not necessarily became completed. Christendom has been as well in the 19th-20th cenutry a core principle in Europe, even until today many parts. Age of discovery/listing centuries are marginal. However, by most of these discoveries Christendom was even exported to those places as well. Deviated? I ask the third time, did you check the link I provided which is from the source you added?(KIENGIR (talk) 05:28, 7 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Again. Read the text. you are grasping at straws with the "detach" issue. And explain why it is a bad phrasing of the words of Delanty. I do not care up to this point if you don't agree with it. Age of discovery/listing centuries are marginal. I wonder if it is that a point any source is making or it is you? (no century was mentioned inline, now that you bring that up, btw). Yes, deviating. You are straying away from this: Delanty, Gerard (1995). "The Westernisation of Europe". Inventing Europe Idea, Identity, Reality. p. 30. doi:10.1057/9780230379657. ISBN 978-0-333-62203-2. "Until the late fifteenth century the idea of Europe was principally a geographical expression and subordinated to Christendom which was the dominant identity system in the West. The idea of Europe as the West began to be consolidated in the foreign conquests of the age of 'discovery" (...) "Europe then begins to shed itself of its association with Christendom and slowly becomes an autonomous discourse."--Asqueladd (talk) 05:34, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Asqueladd:,

you are circularly repeating the same, and I don't grasp any straws. I read everything you provided, such like detach, I don't see ("begins to shed itself of its association with Christendom and slowly becomes" does not mean what you summarized by "became detached from Christendom"). On the other hand if I click to the source you provided also here, and head to the Europe in the Age of Modernity abstract, I read i.e. this:

The idea of Europe is a creation of the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, for it was in these centuries that it entered into its own as a secularised version of Christendom which began to decline as a unifying narrative. The Reformation and the seventeenth century wars of religion shattered the unity of Christendom. The Renaissance and the Enlightenment provided the basis for a new secular identity. The idea of Europe henceforth became the cultural model of the West and served as a unifying theme of modernity. But this did not mean that Europe signified a radical break from the Christian world-view. What happened was that the idea of Europe simply became less subservient to the old nexus of Christendom and its alter ego Islam.

I hope you realized the problem.(KIENGIR (talk) 05:50, 7 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I may be going in circles because you are going in circles. I have opened a thread in the talk page.--Asqueladd (talk) 05:53, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt that, since I pinpointed the problem immediately. Ok.(KIENGIR (talk) 06:03, 7 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I think you feel aggrieved for something the article does not state (that "Europe" abandoned Christendom in the 15th century). I also think you are also inadvertedly reframing the focus of the article from "Western Europe" to "Europe". The article's focus should be the fuzzy concept of "Western Europe" (the novel idea of an European West), not "Europe" . While particularly at the beginning the differences stem from subtle nuances and can be underlapped (the former subsumed within the latter), the perspective is not exactly the same (and by the 19th/20th century, well after the Enlightenment, both concepts were already separated from each other). The idea of undermining the importance of the Age of Discovery (largely a "western european" phenomenon), as you deem it "marginal", and replacing it by the wars of religion (overall an "European" development altogether rather than purely "Western European", or, most acrimoniously in the Thirty Years War, "Central European" to a large extent), or changing the focus from "The westernisation of Europe" to ccould be hints that's the case. I think you should also should reflect on that when approaching the edition (all this without prejudice to the fact that the ideas of "West" and "East" are constantly being redefined and are not set in stone). Regards.--Asqueladd (talk) 07:28, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Asqueladd:,

I think instead of unfounded speculations, you should concentrate on your part. I don't feel aggrieved etc., I did not reframe anything, what I said holds to Western Europe as well (I just gave a broader scope to reflect what you did not wish to see). I did not undermine anything, since they were partly touching, identical centuries. I never said the 19th/20th century was "exactly the same", etc. The situation is crystal-clear, explained more times, etc.(KIENGIR (talk) 07:48, 7 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

If you are not going to holistically reflect on the former, at least reflect on this: Your treatment of the content strays away from the idea of the chapter specifically dealing with the the Westernisation of Europe (which you just removed altogether from the lead). You have not adequately justified such divergence, and you have brought issues that are near entirely (all but an "adverbial modifier") a preoccupation of yours, not the source, no matter how "crystal-clear" you think things are.--Asqueladd (talk) 07:55, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Asqueladd:,

Your own close pharaphrasing stayed away more significantly - it seems hard for to see acknowlegde that, but you already updated yourself, a good direction -, anyway, your arbitrary choice from a new source added is not something carved in the stone, if no consensus we simply remove it, or even we may quote other parts from the same source, etc. What I did was not any preoccupation of mine but used your source to reflect your mistake of your summarization, and I adequately demonstrated multiple times the validity of my concerns which anyway was not by any means a relevant divergence, your initial became detached phrasing was that in fact. It is normal if I pinpointed broader scope some issues related what you failed to see, this is natural if somebody does not understand something in the beginning.

P.S.: I suggest you stop recurrently modifying your already posted comments (continous edit conflict), as well to overexplain yourself, it's quite tendentious and overwrought. The initial and slightly modified summarizations are insufficient and not satisfactory, misunderstandable. Deal with it, instead of hunting me of invented/speculative things. Everyone commit mistakes, so what, we'll correct it, don't take it so hard...Holistically? Excuse me, I reacted to everything, more times, read back it you missed something, but to continue this discussion here is useless.(KIENGIR (talk) 08:16, 7 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

To begin with, what new source are you speaking about like if there were an old source before? There was no old source before. Unsourced content. I compel you again: Explain in the talk page how the focus of the chapter "Europe in the Age of Modernity" is more pertinent to Western Europe than the chapter "Westernisation of Europe"" (or why they are incompatible, being signed by the same author). Because you have not solved that. Of course sourced content can be refined (I am already proposing changes in the talk page), but you have did not do that. you have removed sourced content, because according to you "Age of Discovery" is "marginal" (sic) vis-a-vis Western Europe (Lol) and because according to you the article suggests Europe abandoned Christianity in the early modern period or something like that (the article does no do that, it states, as per the source (Delanty 1995, pp. 30–31), that he idea of Europe became increasingly and protractedly autonomous from that of Christendom, attaching with that of the West as signifier).--Asqueladd (talk) 08:39, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Asqueladd:,

Everything is new what was not before there. I will react everything on the talk page if necessary, but now we are not on the article's talk page (btw. I disagree it would not be solved). Yes, I did not make a proposal yet, but I did with my edit trials, and I have considerable time to suggest or react anything anytime there, this is not an online chat platform, etc. Again, I rephrased content based on the same source which did not suffer from such discrepansies like some phrasing would suggest Christendom would be became detached then, that is obviously false.

Furthermore you again try address something to me which I did not say, I never said "Age of Discovery" is "marginal" (sic) , and I even explained, read back and increase your accuracy and precisity adequately, what I referred that if we list touching centuries or use this term is marginal, considering the main problem was the false representation of the dealing with Christendom. The article (= your bold edit precisely), was not stating what you describe here, and not even your first modified version. Only now you started to converge to more appropriate closing paraphrasing. Let's stop this discussion.(KIENGIR (talk) 08:58, 7 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Edit warring on Hungarian language

Your recent editing history at Hungarian language shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
Your threat to continue to edit war does not help your case at all. Jeppiz (talk) 23:10, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeppiz:,

funny with this warning you tell me to follow WP:BRD, which I have followed all the time, while others did not, moreover I did not harm any policy, moreover two reverts in 5 days, given these to make such a warning is totally unprofessional, out of practice. Just rememeber your earlier warning when you as well did not perform everything properly and your sudden actions was useless, as turned out in the end. Please refrain yourself from unneccesary overreactions and such kind of dubious warnings in the future.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:13, 10 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Edit warring notice

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. LordRogalDorn (talk) 12:57, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Funny, you think with mirroring activities and copy-pastes your disruptive activity in several pages are not apparent?(KIENGIR (talk) 13:50, 12 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Hungarian irredentism is covered by discretionary sanctions

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in Eastern Europe or the Balkans. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

Please see the recent AN3 complaint. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 14:25, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

About Belarusian People's Republic

I just received a notification says that you reverted my edits, so I want to know the cause of your objection to my modification, if you don't mind. Mohammed 2976 (talk) 23:32, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mohammed 2976:,

Sure, so as states as well in the edit log, in 1918-1919 such borders of Europe you posted did not exist, some parts are from 1924.(KIENGIR (talk) 05:56, 16 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you for the clarification. Mohammed 2976 (talk) 06:06, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding our behavior towards each other

Hi @KIENGIR:I hope that you don’t hold a grudge against me because of our long drawn out debate months ago on the Tripartite talk pages. I feel as though your replies on the Axis page come across a bit passive aggressive. I don’t know. My replies and their details revolve around an a entirely new topic. I’m not repeating not even 1/12 of the things we spoke of before. And I was agreeing with you that more details in the box would probably be better. Which is why I went on about the original infobox format. The focus isn’t on NDH but a few sentences. A small part of my replies. I brought it up as a small point in a collection of many other points leading to my two option solutions for the infobox. I wasn’t trying to instigate a rerun of the same old topic. That is all said and done. I know we see some things differently and thats fine, that’s what RfCs are for. Other people will chime in. I hope we can maintain friendly relations as editors. Maybe the black and white text makes it hard to read intent and I’m over reading it. But just wanted to reach out to you personally. As I respect your views and the work you do on Wikipedia. Also bare in mind I cannot help myself, I type a lot as I type the same time I think. Maybe annoying to some but it’s unintentional. I get worried I might be missing details for the other person to see. OCD on my part maybe. Hence I re edit many times the same reply. OyMosby (talk) 22:51, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@OyMosby:,

no grudges, no aggressivity. I share the mutual respect and friendship. However I find not useful to repetitive open identical discussions which may be lengthy and was once discussed. See talk page of Kyiv. It became an online chatlist, no chance to follow.(KIENGIR (talk) 03:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Awesome. Thing is I don’t really see how it was identical. My main argument was about the infobox and to go back to the original infobox. I wasn’t trying to restart an old argument. Your reply focused on the puppet and master equality part of my vote comment. Which wasn’t my main point. As irregardless of that I listed many other points as to why I preferred the original infobox. So I was confused. And felt that you were actually restarting an old arguments funny enough, haha!

I was agreeing with your stance that a more detailed infobox is better. And linked to a version I thought would be best. The original.Also bare in mind my initiation of the NDH subject was to a new audience not targeted towards you as Srnec mentioned Slovakia and NDH in the RfC. As we understand we have locked different views on the matter. Which is fine. I just wanted to make sure as sometimes I myself can come across a bit dismissive or pssive-agressive, even when I don’t mean to. I agree our last back and forth was overdrawn. I guess we both felt we could really convince the other to change their mind. Trust me I know the frustration of rehashed arguments. I deal with Balkan articles. At times I wish Croats just stuck with the Hungarians rather than be left to the Balkans....

Anyway, what DO you think about my proposal of going back to the original 2017 version of the infobox? OyMosby (talk) 03:57, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@OyMosby:,

it's not identical, but even 1/20 identical would be time consuming and not necessary. Now you again repeating/explain many things we already discussed. I did not overdraw anything, but I try to be as concise as possible. The 2017 version could be also good, but anyway it contains mistakes. The recent version don't.(KIENGIR (talk) 04:11, 19 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I didn’t say only you overdraw I mean us going on and on. Back and forth. Takes two to tango. As I was also trying to make sure I was being precise and explaining myself best as I can like yourself. What am I now repeating and explain again??? This isn’t even the same conversation.... I think you are taking this the wrong way. I meant it as a friendly banter. Man....

The recent version throws away a lot of information. Otherwise why not continue to simplify the infobox to just the main three axis powers? I’m not sure what mistakes it has. But to throw info out the door because of some mistakes seems like a bad trade off. It seems to break down categories quite specifically. OyMosby (talk) 04:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, friendliness much appreciated. I don't support to show only the main powers. Mistakes has the dates in some places. Well, many tried to re-add, but did not succeed.(KIENGIR (talk) 04:44, 19 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

We both wrote screeds in the past so I’ll keep this short. I was being sarcastic about only showing the the powers. Fixing the dates I think is better than throwing all that info out. I think aesthetically 2017 was fine. Perhaps we can all work on the list dates and formatting if enough are agreeing or willing. We can carry on on the talk page. Cheers OyMosby (talk) 04:52, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@KIENGIR: I don’t understand, here you were receptive and seemed okay with using the 2017 version while dates would be fixed but were dismissive about it on the other Axis Powers talk page not even entertaining it saying no one would accept it and just that current is flawless. Why not bring up both options? You even liked my last reply. I thought you were on the same page. By the way as for dates, I would vouch for Hungary post 1944 being listed as a Client state as it was occupied by Germany at that point. OyMosby (talk) 16:03, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@OyMosby:,

I think I fairly expressed my stance, which may co-exist, even if it shared partly pro- or contra opinions. Hungary has been a client state liekly by signing the Tripartite pact.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:15, 20 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I meant that you seemed open to the 2017 version if mistake are fixed but on the Axis Powers Talk page you seemed not for it at all. Saying others kept fighting it in the past? I think it was a select few who were against in the past. I wish it was made an option in the RfC not just current vs further reduced list. Would give more options. I don’t know. Also shouldn’t it be noted for situations like Hungary that became Client States later on after occupation in the infobox? I know some felt it would complicate the box too much. I felt different. What do you think?OyMosby (talk) 00:20, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I already clarified both places, I consider current version flawless (=support), while the other version (=partial support if corrected, but this does not annihilate my stance on the recent version). Again Hungary became likely a client state by signing the Tripartite Pact. I don't think more details on countries like qualifiers needed.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:32, 21 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

No I get that now you views on both versions. But I’m not talking now qualifiers but clarifications should be added for client states, puppet governments and such? Also was there really a big amount of editors against the 2017 version in the past? You had mentioned.OyMosby (talk) 00:58, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think anything such such be added, infobox is meant for concise overview. I did not check exactly the numbers, but was as well a discussion about it, which did not succeed, as I recall.(KIENGIR (talk) 07:02, 21 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

By the way I looked at that Kiev talk page you mention. Christ, what mess that page is.OyMosby (talk) 21:00, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and unfortunately it will become worse, since now they think everywhere they may eliminate the word Kiev, just look the below the latest discussion and happenings.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:22, 21 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Common Slavic

Old Church Slavonic developed from the Proto-Slavic/Common Slavic dialects already spoken by southern Slavs in the lands of the First Bulgarian Empire. It states this in several of the respective articles, with clear sources. 74.12.127.61 (talk) 10:08, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@74.12.127.61:,

Please read the mother article. Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 10:09, 19 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I did: "Authorities differ as to which periods should be included in Proto-Slavic and in Common Slavic. The language described in this article generally reflects the middle period, usually termed Late Proto-Slavic (sometimes Middle Common Slavic[2]) and often dated to around the 7th to 8th centuries. This language remains largely unattested, but a late-period variant, representing the late 9th-century dialect spoken around Thessaloniki in Greek Macedonia, is attested in Old Church Slavonic manuscripts."

Thanks. 74.12.127.61 (talk) 10:12, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Principality of Kiev

Hello KIENGIR, I have reverted your change on the page of "Principality of Kiev". There are no inconsistencies with the referred links, because the link names were changed, names of the pictures were not changed, so pictures are still there. Titles cannot be changed right now, since they are locked because of the undergoing discussion about the best way to change Kiev to Kyiv everywhere in Wikipedia. You can see it here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:KIENGIR/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Mass_Kyiv_disruption Concerning the inconsistencies: the page cannot say:

- around its capital city Kiev

- Capital Kiev

- Grand Princes of Kiev.

Because the name of the city is Kyiv (not Kiev), as per the main page. Hence "city Kiev", "Capital Kiev", "Princes of Kiev" - dont make any sense, because Kiev, does not exist. Some links are still directing to the pages using "Kiev". But, it is a Work in Progress. There are thousand of pages, and they cannot be corrected just overnight.

@T0mk0us:,

I suggest you to wait until this issue is closed in the noticeboard. Currently these changes lead to such elemental problems I explained in the edit log (on the other hand you may easily mask any Kiev with Kyiv|, and not all article's title have been changed). Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 18:14, 21 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

There are now any red links. As I explained the name of the city is Kyiv. Hence, rather Kyiv will be masked with Kiev. Concerning titles of articles, I have already explained. Since the change of the main page to Kyiv, all the references to this city should be changed to Kyiv. And this is a lot of work. Noticeboard are discussing the best possible way to do the chage for the titles and categories. And it will be done in one way or another. There will not be Kiev in English Wikipedia, only Kyiv. (exception for chicken-Kiev, LOL) Please do not continue edit warring. T0mk0us (talk) 19:20, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@T0mk0us:,

the report exactly approves my concern and what I said, and just the because the main page name changed, it does not mean in the English WP "Kiev" will never be any, see the respective talk at the main page as well. Edit-warring is something you outline in case you continue, since per policy I may fairly revert you at this point.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:57, 21 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I don't see any approval of your concern. In every page in English WP containing Kiev, Kiev will be changed to Kyiv. It is just the matter of time.

Excluding name of dishes like "Chiken Kiev" of cause. Because it is not even related to the capital of Ukraine Kyiv. I know the policy very well, and if you revert me again - it will be 3rd revert. Which could cost you a block. Like you were alredy blocked many times. Thank you. T0mk0us (talk) 20:17, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@T0mk0us:,

You should have read at least what you link to me, or for what I've drawn your attention. Repeating the same that I already reacted does not help. No, you don't know the policy well, the 3rd revert won't cost me a block, and have in mind anyone may still revert you fairly by policy.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:28, 21 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Your recent editing history at Principality of Kiev shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. T0mk0us (talk) 09:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@T0mk0us:,

are you kidding? Why are you keep posting to editors such notices, when in fact you made clear edit warring at the article, while other users just acted by policy? Especially now when I did not touch the article after opening the talk page discussion? No surprise you recurrently don't get what others tell you.(KIENGIR (talk) 13:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I have edited article according to the decision made on Septembre 17th, 2020, concerning the change of the transliteration of the name of the capital of Ukraine from Kiev to Kyiv. You and other editor started the edit warring, because you did not liked my edit. what is the policy you are talking about? (T0mk0us talk) 04:42, 23 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@T0mk0us:,

No, you've been explained why that does not authorize the mass changes also on other articles references and names which are not bounded by this change (nothing to do with my preferences). Sorry, you ara again faking and refuse to see the point. Clear edit warring you did when you continued reverting after the discusson started in the talk page, and now you still continued it, reverting the another editor. Policies i.e. WP:BRD and WP:CONSENSUS.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:53, 23 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Recent edits on some articles

Hi there, I've seen your edits on the National Legionary State, Government of National Unity, and Fascist Italy articles, your rationale for your edits was that they were government articles, not state articles.

Seeing your discussion on the Kingdom of Romania talk page, I came to agree with you when it comes to the Legionary state, but I have to disagree when it comes to the Government of National Unity and Fascist Italy.

The Government of National Unity was not merely a government within the Kingdom of Hungary, but a puppet state established by Nazi Germany, established because Horthy and signed an armistice with the Allies and they wanted to keep Hungary in the war, for this reason, I think the state categories should be kept in this case.

In Fascist Italy's case, there was a large break between the Kingdom before Fascism and during it, it was not as large as, say, that between the Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany (which were technically the same entity, the "German Reich"), but still a large one nevertheless, before Fascism, Italy was a democratic country, but when the Fascists took power it became a totalitarian country ruled by one-party, and became so for 21 years, thus, I think the staste categories should be kept for this reason. -- 186.213.6.155 (talk) 17:55, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@186.213.6.155:,

Hi. You have to understand that unfortunately just because an article has a (former) country-like template, it does not necessarily mean they would be countries, these have also many inappropriate(ly) (working) parameters, which if you would correct, the whole would break.

Regarding Hungary, no new puppet state was installed, Hungary has been an Axis Power, the legal framwork was as well not broken in the succession line. What is a fact the new government's installement were supported by the Germans, and Horthy revoked the armistice earlier.

Regarding the other, the Kingdom of Italy is the country article, while - as well other's noticed and replaced the error in many other pages - the other article is about the Fascist era, similarly to the Romanian article. If you consider anything missing from the Kingdom of Italy article, you may add qualifiers, however I see there already Constitutional monarchy under a fascist one-party totalitarian dictatorship (1922–1943), etc.(KIENGIR (talk) 11:13, 23 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Horthy did not place the Arrow Cross in power because he wanted to but because he was forced by the Germans, when the Arrow Cross was put in power, Hungary became pretty much a puppet of Germany, saying that it wasn't just because Hungary was a member of the Axis is like saying that the Italian Social Republic wasn't a puppet

With regards to Italy, yes this is true, but again, there is a large break between the Kingdom before Fascism and during it, at least this was the argument used by one of the users in that discussion you mentioned, saying that Nazi Germany should be considered a state because there is a large break between it and the Weimar Republic, despite them being technically the same entity. -- 186.213.58.20 (talk) 18:31, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@186.213.58.20:,

- Well, situations may be similar or quite different at some instances, we could also say the population's or the military leadership's stance was doubtful whether to continue or stop the war, puppet state's are better established or emerging newly, which is not really this case.

- There may be more specific country articles, Nazi Germany is a state article, while Kingdom of Hungary (1301–1526) is a state article as well, but it does not mean Kingdom of Hungary would not be also.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:39, 23 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I don't see why that is the case, again, Germany put the Arrow Cross in power because Horthy signed an armistice with the Allies, if a country marched in into another, removed it's government because it did something it didn't like, and established another in it's place, said government would be widely recognized as a puppet, I don't see why it should be different in this case.

The Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany were technically the same entities, if Nazi Germany is considered a state article (and I agree it should), I don't see why Fascist Italy shoud be different. -- 186.213.58.20 (talk) 21:05, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@186.213.58.20:,

- so again, pupper states are established/created and emerging, while Hungary was not like that, just the government changed after a long time. Do not confuse please governments with states

- Again, the article we are discussing is per definiton and Era article, not a state article.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:08, 23 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

If a country is ruled by a puppet government, it automatically makes that country a puppet state, even if at first it wasn't one.

Same thing can be said about the Nazi Germany article, plus state articles can also be era articles, those things are not mutually exclusive. -- 186.213.58.20 (talk) 21:29, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@186.213.58.20:,

- this is not as clear as you suggest, since the new government were put through in a legal framework and sucession, as the parliament operated as well like so, unlike some puppet regimes.

- Possibly, but tan explicit era article cannot be state article.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:55, 23 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

It's true that it was put through in a legal framework, but still, Horthy wouldn't do it if the Germans didn't force him to.

I'm curious, why do you consider Nazi Germany to be a state article, but you don't consider Fascist Italy to be one? -- 186.213.58.20 (talk) 22:48, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So what? We summarize what happened, not what would have happened. Read the lead: ".... 1943–45, was the German state between 1933 and 1945, ...., vs. "...is the era of National Fascist Party government from 1922 to 1943.... I think this topic should be closed.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:51, 23 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Just because it put through in a legal framework doesn't mean it wasn't a puppet, and leads can be easily edited, but my point was, that technically, Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany were the same entity, hence, based on your rationale, Nazi Germany should be a government article, not a state one, but yeah, I don't see much reason to continue this topic. -- 186.213.58.20 (talk) 23:93, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@186.213.58.20:,

sorry I explained you already the situation, read back carefully and don't misinterpret my words. No, based on my rationale Nazi Germany should not be a government article, I've never suggested that. Mind my earlier sentence.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:07, 23 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I didn't misinterpret anything, again what I stated was that technically the Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany were the same entity, why then, should Nazi Germany be considered a state article but Fascist Italy not? -- 186.213.58.20 (talk) 23:28, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You did, and I already answered to you more times.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Stein

Stein was baptized as an infant. Why do you think he should be called a convert? Srnec (talk) 14:34, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Srnec:,

Oh yes, sure, Thanks.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:40, 27 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Are you new to wp?

I noticed 4 problems with your edits here.

1. Stick with what the ref says, and what the wikipedia article is entitled. Your bastardization of them to state something quite different is not proper editing.

2. To link "United States" is overlinking. Which we should not engage in.

3. The same problem with 1, when you basterdize what the source says - for no good reason to delete the reference to the Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia. Is that something you wish to hide? This editing is quite odd. The source supports what was stated. Don't delete it.

4. Don't mark your edit "m" for minor in your edit summary, when you are engaging in deletions or significant changes to the edits of other editors. While I am of course certain it was not your intention, editors could think that you are trying to conceal problematic edits. --2604:2000:E010:1100:7472:3DB5:41A0:11EB (talk) 03:42, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@2604:2000:E010:1100:7472:3DB5:41A0:11EB:,

Hi, I am not new to WP.

1 - excuse me, what kind of bastardization are you talking about? Close pharaphrasing is allowed and accuracy is also important.

2 - how could it be overlinking if that is the only link to it in the main text?

3 - I kept references, or even re-added some, if something disappeared, may be by mistake, I don't wish to hide anything, but accurately the Munich Agreement assigned part of Czechoslovakia to Germany, while later the country broke up and the Czech rump state joined as a Protectorate to Germany, there was not any one-time occupation event as your wordage would insist.

4 - Sorry, no significant changes were made in the article, practically two linkings and one sentence-plus paraphrasing.(KIENGIR (talk) 04:03, 29 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Oh. I'm sorry - these didn't appear to me to be edits a non-early-user would make.

1. The bastardization should be self-evident. You did not closely paraphrase - you bastardized to substantively delete reference that perhaps you do not like. But the reference is in the source. And in the title of the Wikipedia article. That is not permissible.

2. It is overlinking to link "United States." Even if it is the only link in the text. I again could understand a new editor not knowing this. But an experienced editor should. Let me know if I have to look for the relevant policy for you, and I will provide it.

3. Same as 1.

4. Changes 1 and 3 referred to above were not minor. They were substantive. I will fix them, as you do not seem to see the issue. 2604:2000:E010:1100:7472:3DB5:41A0:11EB (talk) 04:16, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@2604:2000:E010:1100:7472:3DB5:41A0:11EB:.

Sorry, I disagree, my answers are above, I see no reason to repeat them, believe I have relevant experience, you should remain at the talk page.(KIENGIR (talk) 04:18, 29 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

• I fail to see how you, exercising good faith, even now, can assert that your deletion of "three days before the Nazis invaded Czechoslovakia in 1939" - for example, was not substantive. It is troubling because, as with your other substantive change, it appears to be an effort to downplay the Nazis. I note that the same concern is states as to your edits by other editors, above.

Also, as you did not acknowledge it, and just dismissed my comment and asserted you were correct, I give you wp:overlink. As it states quite clearly - which leaves me puzzled as to why you, as a non-new editor would say you were correct in linking "United States" - "Unless a term is particularly relevant to the context in the article, the following are usually not linked: ... The names of subjects with which most readers will be at least somewhat familiar. This generally includes major examples of ... countries (e.g., Japan/Japanese, Brazil/Brazilian)." Surely, you as an experienced good faith editor can see how "United States" would fall into that category. 2604:2000:E010:1100:7472:3DB5:41A0:11EB (talk) 04:40, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@2604:2000:E010:1100:7472:3DB5:41A0:11EB:,

here must be a misunderstanding. Earlier the page attested three days, after your edit three months. I have no problem to stick your source, however it could tell us also important whereabouts of the original question. Sorry, what is appear to be and the reality may be different. Which editor(s) you refer? The one above e.g. who does not see or understand some things, or not necessarily is an expert of history? On the other issue, we have plenty articles where countries are even linked in a multiple way, I find it quite odd that one link would be the showcase of overlinking, practically we remove repeated links at the same instance. But you know what, I will accept to unlink United States, if really this satisfies you.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:00, 29 September 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for September 30

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Rzucewo culture, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Pre-Indo-European.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 10:12, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Maps

Hey, I see you reverted some of my maps removing, yes it was on other pages all added by one user, and seems just as original not piblished work. So think. No source, not published and totally original work and I saw on somw pages people.already removed it and the same user put it back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AnAnicolaidis (talk • contribs) 23:40, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @AnAnicolaidis:,

Please at one of the article's talk page open a discussion and tell your concerns, pointing out you wish to discuss thus is issue globally. Gain consensus there for removal. Thank You.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:44, 10 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Well I dont think to that work for original research and unsurced work, it can be removed. I only dont know why you reverted and put back unsourced work what is original and ignored explained edits. So explain, I can easy revert unsourced works so give some good explanation.AnAnicolaidis (talk) 23:46, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@AnAnicolaidis:,

Per policy, since they are present more months in the articles.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Present couple of months and added all in the same time on some pages reverted but put back, example of Serbs page, I was interested when I saw but when checked where I can find a source cuz can be useful it seems just as someone original work not sourced at all and not published at all. You seems as a old user with a lot of experience and to you care about to things are sourced and relevant and true, so please check if looks good than ok if it is just some original thought or work and not quality cuz about maps, lets say colors mean much too, it must go out.AnAnicolaidis (talk) 00:04, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@AnAnicolaidis:,

I think they are useful and informative, but for your concern I recommended to open a talk page discussion, if you stick to it. Then you concern may be more thoroughly investigated.(KIENGIR (talk) 13:52, 11 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Maurice?

The hell is with this whole “Maurice” nonsense on Axis Powers? A reddit or meme challenge from some video to disrupt the page? EDIT: I think I figured out the source of this childish ongoing game https://www.reddit.com/r/comedyheaven/comments/e3220t/maurice/ . I remember when I was in Middle school messing with Wikipedia. HahaOyMosby (talk) 05:43, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@OyMosby:,

I don't know, the users/IPs who are pushing this are serious vandals, report them to admins to block them.(KIENGIR (talk) 13:55, 11 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Talk:Hypothetical Axis victory in World War II#map 2

please explain and argument for your case in the talkpage, you never provided rationale for your edits other some vague "r- oppose chane, the previous map was much more better, everything is hyphothetic anyway, not carved in a stone" or "Then the last stable map will be restored that was before your edits" that is considered disprutive that you are ready to start an repeatingly reverting (read: edit war) and do so without any rationale, i will atleast not continue edit waring with you but this still means you have to go through WP:BRD Gooduserdude (talk) 06:38, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gooduserdude:,

I did provide rationale (you even cited them), and following our policies is not "disruptive", and I am fully aware of the guidelines, don't worry. If you say you won't continue, why did you revert? WP:BRD is on you, since you changed recurrently the map, per this rule, I fairly restored the article to it's earlier status.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:33, 15 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Discussion about you at ANI by LordRogalDorn

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Posting this notice on behalf of LordRogalDorn. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 22:43, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Dreamy Jazz:,

Thank you, at least the entire community may review this soap opera, I am just sorry for anyone's time lost on this nonsense.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:57, 15 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Concerning your edit here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hungary&diff=next&oldid=983712062

You have recently removed information mentioning Viktor Orban, the Prime Minister of Hungary in the lead section of the Hungary article. I believe that Orban and his policies which have eroded democracy in the country is a significant and notable aspect that warrants being mentioned in the lead section. Why do you believe otherwise? --DeathTrain (talk) 23:32, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DeathTrain your edit pattern is getting a bit concerning. How many editors have reverted you on thsee types of edits? So far it appears most belive that the edits are undue additions when these articles cover millennium's worth of information.--Moxy 🍁 00:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DeathTrain:,

I agree with @Moxy:, your opinion about politics is not necessarily lead worthy, considering it is anyway a controversial issue, and the Government and Politics section anyway discuss such issues.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:42, 16 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Not many. When I add information on current or relatively recent governments to lead sections of countries, they are for ones that I believe to be especially notable, as they are usually longtime leaders who have a significant impact. For example, Putin has dominated Russia's government for around two-thirds of Russia's post-Soviet history, under whom human rights in the country have significantly declined, which is prominently mentioned in the Russia articles "Politics" section. In Hungary, Viktor Orban's rule has been concurrent with a period of democratic backsliding, such that Hungary is no longer considered a democracy. I believe that leaving it out of the lead section and only having it say that Hungary became a democratic parliamentary republic in 1989 is misleading. Even if some consider my additions to be undue weight, I would have no problem creating edits to make them appropriate. Many articles are similar, with the Turkey article mentioning how Erdogan has similarly eroded democratic Kemalist institutions, and with the Belarus article mentioning how Lukashenko has been described as leading "Europe's last dictatorship" and gives specific examples of his authoritarian leadership. Other examples of countries that mention and elaborate on longtime or current governments: Zimbabwe, Eritrea, Equatorial Guinea, Syria, Rwanda, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Venezuela I do not plan to talk about Donald Trump in the lead section of the United States article as I do not believe he has been too significant to the history of that country yet. These are not my opinions, but objective facts compiled by non-governmental organizations and scholars. I also tend to contextualize and elaborate upon human rights in lead sections, as has been done in many articles of countries with problematic human rights records, such as with the aforementioned countries as well as China, Iran, Cuba and North Korea. More notably, MOS:LEAD mandates that a lead section "should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies". Why do you believe that my additions are not significant enough to be lead-worthy? DeathTrain (talk) 01:02, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DeathTrain:,

the other issues listed here and your opinion about them, or their specific notability is another issue, in some cases even if you'd consider similarity, on the other hand as much or even more, incomparable difference may occur. Hungary is considered a democracy, while on the other hand she receives criticism, from some politicians, domestic opposition parties, media outlets, organizations etc. mostly connected to a another political family. Also we could give long explanations about the period of 2002-2010, which has been disastrous and could receive much more critics, anything before it until 1989. The lead is not for shoapboxing political issues, we have to remain neutral.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:19, 16 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I am being neutral. NGOs like Human Rights Watch mention that "the Hungarian government fails to respect the rule of law and human rights", which are important elements of democracy. (https://www.hrw.org/europe/central-asia/hungary) My edits on the Hungary article place the issue in context, with the democratic backsliding beginning under Orban. We could also give a brief mention the period right before Orban, with something like, "Following a period of economic and political turmoil from 2002 until 2010, Hungary has experienced significant democratic backsliding after the election of right-wing Prime Minister Viktor Orban in 2010." It is understandable that you think that Hungary is still a relatively democratic state. However, what will need to happen for you to believe that the democratic backsliding is significant enough to warrant changing the lead section? DeathTrain (talk) 01:42, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your wording was not neutral at all, and the NGO's reports are heavily misleading, at many aspects in fact the opposite is true. Such soapboxing was even removed from the Poland article, at Hungary I was the one who did not remove such critic in the section I referred, although I could easily do that, so you cannot say I don't respect criticism, but won't support politically motivated lobbies. Understandable to think? Sorry, it has nothing to do with my personal beliefs, only the reality matters, that is the "democratic backsliding" is a decription of the criticists.(KIENGIR (talk) 02:12, 16 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

If that is the case, then do you have proof that the opposite is true, and that democratic backsliding is not happening or that it is not that significant under Orban? Orban himself even describes the state he plans to build as "illiberal". (https://euobserver.com/political/125128), and that is prominently mentioned in the lead section of his own article. DeathTrain (talk) 10:20, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please try not to confuse opinions with facts. Critics are already on the page on the relevant section, and Orbán's concept of illiberalism is well explained on the source you have given, but it did not really affect democratic values in Hungary. Orbán is not Hungary, not much counts what is on his page.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:49, 16 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Once again, do you have proof from independent entities that Orban's illiberalism is not really affecting democracy in Hungary? Under your interpretation of MOS:LEAD, do you think how Erdogan is mentioned in the Turkey article is inappropriate? What about Lukashenko in Belarus, Mugabe in Zimbabwe, or Nazarbayev and Tokayev in Kazakhstan? What would change your mind if anything? Even if Orban is not Hungary, isn't he still significant? If he is not significant enough now, then could he ever be worth mentioning in the lead section like Árpád or Stephen I? What would be required for Orban to be mentioned in the lead section of the article? DeathTrain (talk) 23:57, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again, do not confuse opinions with facts, btw. independent entities could be really hard to find in today's political environment. As well, about other countries or articles any issue should be discussed there. We don't know if ever Orbán could be mentioned along with historic kings or sacred rulers, as I said currently, in the appropriate section anyway the debated/weird freedom house report is already present, which sufficently satisfies criticists point of view (I reiterate the same report was removed from the Poland article, so please do not insist I would not be correct).(KIENGIR (talk) 00:20, 17 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Alright, I propose we settle this with a discussion on the Hungary talk page. Are you okay with that? DeathTrain (talk) 00:53, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's your choice, but I think you should not endorse this issue, given the aforementioned problems, and btw. we already discussed here extensively, no need to repeat twice.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:59, 17 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

So I did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:KIENGIR/Talk:Hungary#Orban_in_lead_section DeathTrain (talk) 01:19, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fidesz

Hello @KIENGIR! I wrote a little paragraph about Fidesz anti-semitic moments, but you deleted it. Could you please tell me how can I make this paragraph more neutral? Why is this information inaccurate for you? Thank you for your help! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vlagyimir1997 (talk • contribs) 14:21, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Vlagyimir1997:,

Some parts are either redundant, or blatant overexaggerations, or simply not accurate. E.g The Soros-poster case is already mentioned, the accusations as well, along with that the Israeli government defended the case. We don't need a controversial SOAPBOXING, targeting invidividuals, which barely represent the party, as well we should not make conflation with the Government itself, as every criticism are circling out this. This competition with accusations of anti-Semitism is amateurish, not even the Jobbik page contains as many issues that you tried to compile here. The article is already full with widesperad mainstream criticism, even in a more wide extent as necessary.(KIENGIR (talk) 05:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR:

1.Soros called the campaign anti-Semitic. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hungary-soros-idUSKBN1DK0M8 2.You can not avoid conflating the behaviour of Fidesz with the government, since it is the governing party! 3. The individuals mention are core figures and do represent the Fidesz : Kövér is a founder of the party and currently speaker of the house with very controversial anti-semitic remarks among others the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:KIENGIR/László_Kövér#Nyírő's_reburial Takaró is the main architect of the National Curriculum appointed by the Fidesz government Raffay is also https://hungarianspectrum.org/tag/mihaly-takaro/ Bayer is a well-known racist holds Fidesz party membership book nr 5. and the mastermind behind anti-semitic, anti-roma, anti-gay, anti immigrant propaganda in government and government-affiliated media https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:KIENGIR/Zsolt_Bayer https://budapestbeacon.com/israel-ambassador-to-hungary-calls-intolerable-fidesz-publicist-zsolt-bayers-anti-semitism/ 4. Döbrentei is a decorated Fidesz inner-circle poet laureate of Fidesz at almost all Fidesz rallies https://www.europeaninterest.eu/article/orban-honors-anti-semitic-poet/ 5. I believe you must allow to inform wikipedia readers about this aspect of Fidesz to get a balanced view. If you dismiss the anti-semitism aspect of Fidesz , who uses it for its own political benefit, you fell into the trap of Fidesz double talk which they employ to distort truth. I am ready to compromise and accept suggestions but just wiping out this issue is unacceptable and I am ready for arbitration. Looking forward for cooperation on this.

@Vlagyimir1997:,

1. The Soros-case is already mentioned in the article

2. The article is about the party, not the government

3. Raffay no, he was a former MDF member and have no membership with parties, Bayer is just accused to be anti-Semitic or racist, don't present opinions as facts

4. This is again a controversial case, again don't confuse stat decorations with party affairs

5. I don't fell into any trap, just neutrality is not equal with propaganda

What I can offer, we may insert one sentence where the Soros-case is mentioned that various people have been accused of anti-Semitism, e.g..(KIENGIR (talk) 03:50, 25 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Dear Editor thank you for your respond. I do not want to take issue with you further however. What you have mentioned is the core of the problem: there is NO difference between the Fidesz-party and the Fidesz-government. It is considered by many objective observers as a one-party-state and vica versa Fidesz as state-party. Nevertheless your solution is acceptable, if you insert a sentence where Soros is mentioned that various Fidesz people have been accused of anti-Semitism with wikipedia cross-reference to Kövér and Pócs who are clearly Fidesz prominents. Thank you for your help in the name of those who consider this information as an important and unfortunate development of the once liberal Fidesz. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vlagyimir1997 (talk • contribs) 08:29, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have to add, it is a fact that the part is not equal with the government, however the leading party-alliance is composed of two parties. The so-called objective observers claim indeed sometimes very strange things. Btw., I added the content you outlined as an agreement.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:00, 30 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Viribus Unitis

Hey KIENGIR, I removed the links to Viribus Unitis on House of Habsburg and House of Habsburg-Lorraine because there is no Wikipedia article about this motto; instead, Viribus Unitis is a disambiguation page, and there's no use in linking to it (see also Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links). I guess an alternative to not linking would be a red link to Viribus Unitis (motto), but doing this would imply the expectation that this page will ever be created, which seems unlikely to me. In any case, the choice is yours, but leaving it as it was is not an option. I hope that clears it up. Lennart97 (talk) 18:54, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Lennart97:,

I was considering, but the third entry is the exact definition, whithout leading to any page, so I think the linking should be retained until specific article created. Cheers.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:16, 23 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Is it really only the motto of the Lorraine branch, specifically? If that's the case, I guess clicking the link to find that definition is kind of helpful if you start at the general Habsburg page, to find out that it's Lorraine's motto, specifically, but not much else. It's a bit vague to me in the first place, since in both cases the motto isn't even mentioned outside of the infobox. Keeping the links is fine with me, though, although in that case they should link to the disambiguation page explicitly, as in ((Viribus Unitis (disambiguation)|Viribus Unitis)). That way, the DPL report doesn't register them as needing fixing. Thanks! Lennart97 (talk) 19:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Lennart97:,

who knows, maybe especially for this reasson the DPL bot is ignoring, but I don't know for sure. You may raise the issue along everything you pinpointed/suggested here in the article's talk, becasue I don't know if it have been the onky motto. Cheers.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:42, 23 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Hungarian emigrants to Cuba

You dont become a Cuban person just by migrating. The is a separate process. Rathfelder (talk) 09:31, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:,

we already discussed that we disagree on this. In case the immigrant gaines the country's citizenship (=nationality), the person will be in the same status as any other country's citizen. It does not necessarily just apply to the next generation descendants's as you try to interpret. So please, don't remove anymore such categories in mass regarding Hungarian-related articles without consensus. Thank you.(KIENGIR (talk) 06:12, 26 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Becoming a citizen is a different process, with its own category. Many migrants never become citizens of the new country. It's misleading to imply that they do. If you think they are the same thing then you can suggest that the categories should be merged. Rathfelder (talk) 10:15, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder:,

I did not re-add to anyone who did not become a citizen (or if yes, tell me). But I've made self-reverts in the categories, and added each person listed who had the citizenship directly.(KIENGIR (talk) 05:33, 28 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Russians and Normans

This statement is quite controversial, could you add authoritative sources here, or revert it back please. --AndriiDr (talk) 05:29, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@AndriiDr:,

I reverted per status quo ante. Take it to the talk page, discuss there with Noraskulk, etc.(KIENGIR (talk) 05:31, 28 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I checked the sources and already wrote to him. I think this statement needs to be erased until it is proven. Thanks. --AndriiDr (talk) 05:48, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Forgot about Keith Hitchins' quote

Hi, when you reverted to the status quo version for Hungarian irredentism [[28]], you accidentally removed Keith Hitchins' quote, who was in the status quo version. You also accidentally removed Keith Hitchins' quote in Hungary in World War II [[29]] when you restored lost intermediary edits.

The historian Keith Hitchins summarised the situation created by the award in his book "Rumania: 1866-1947 (Oxford History of Modern Europe), Oxford University Press, 1994": Far from settling matters, the Vienna Award had exacerbated relations between Romania and Hungary. It did not solve the nationality problem by separating all Magyars from all Romanians. Some 1,150,000 to 1,300,000 Romanians, or 48 per cent to over 50 per cent of the population of the ceded territory, depending upon whose statistics are used, remained north of the new frontier, while about 500,000 Magyars (other Hungarian estimates go as high as 800,000, Romanian as low as 363,000) continued to reside in the south.

I should also point out, that the restored text is contradictory with Hitchins' quote: "By dividing Transylvania between Romania and Hungary, Hitler was able to ease tensions in both countries" as opposed to "Far from settling matters, the Vienna Award had exacerbated relations between Romania and Hungary". The former doesn't seem to have a source to back it up, clearly they are in contradictory, as you can't ease tensions and exacerbate relations at the same time. LordRogalDorn (talk) 04:04, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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State of the Teutonic Order

Hi, why do you keep reverting my edits? The State of the Teutonic Order was not disestablished as part of the Holy Roman Empire, but as part of Poland, which it formed since 1466, per the sixth paragraph of the 1466 peace treaty (as already hinted in the article, with references). Even the maps in the article show that the Teutonic State was located outside of the Holy Roman Empire. As a result of your removal, two categories I've created were once deleted as empty. Also, it was Polish Gdańsk that was invaded in 1308, not Danzig, and Russian Pskov in 1367, not Pleskau (just like, for example, in 1939 Germany invaded Kraków, not Krakau). Plus, the administrative provinces of Poland were Pomerania and Warmia, not Pomerelia and Ermeland, the Duchy of Pomerania was a permanent fief of the Holy Roman Empire since 1227, earlier it often switched affiliation, and there is no need to list all in the article, as it is not relevant to the topic, and the Hanseatic League is rather shortened to Hansa in English.

Marcin 303 (talk) 10:00, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcin 303:

Well actually some part of it formed Royal Prussia, which became an autonomous dependency of Poland, while the other parts somehow incorporated, only in 1569 it merged fully into Poland, so that category should be ignored. Considering the naming in the timeline it has been already under the Teutonic states, so the contemporary name usage is justified. Regarding the infobox, ok, per article title shall it be Kraków.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:56, 31 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR: You've completely missed the point. Could you please answer each of the following questions separately:

1. Do you know that the remaining Prussian part of the Teutonic State (I'm talking about the eastern part, not Royal Prussia) was included within the Kingdom of Poland, as a Teutonic-held fief, per the sixth paragraph of the 1466 peace treaty?
2. Why do you use the names Danzig and Pleskau for Polish Gdańsk and Russian Pskov in reference to the 1308 and 1367 Teutonic invasions? Those cities were not under Teutonic rule during the invasions, obviously, hence the invasions. Would you also say that, let's say, Germany invaded Posen and Krakau in 1939 (instead of Poznań and Kraków) or Germany invaded Straßburg and Mülhausen in 1940 (instead of Strasbourg and Mulhouse)?
3. Do you know that the Duchy of Pomerania was a permanent fief of the Holy Roman Empire since 1227, not 1181? In 1181 it became a fief of the empire for only FOUR years, and both before 1181 and after 1185 the duchy was a fief of other countries, including Poland and Denmark. I think it's fair to either list all countries, or only the Holy Roman Empire permanent dependence since 1227, otherwise it would be misleading.
4. Do you know that in Poland there was no such thing as a Pomerelian Voivodeship, and that Warmia was referred to as Warmia in Poland, not Ermeland?
5. Do you acknowledge the fact that the Hanseatic League is rather shortened to Hansa in English, instead of Hanse, and this is supposed to be a neutral point of view English-language article, not a German-oriented one? Marcin 303 (talk) 17:54, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcin 303:,

- yes

- no, however at the time it was spelled/called as Danczk, e.g.

- it could be solved like we address when permanently happened

- yes(KIENGIR (talk) 17:22, 9 November 2020 (UTC))[reply]

November 2020

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Viktor Orbán; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Paleontologist99 (talk) 21:53, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Paleontologist99:,

are you kidding? This warning may be valid for you since you don't have consensus and ignore dispute resolution, which I started.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:57, 4 November 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Demographics of Hungary

May I ask why you have deleted ALL my contributions to the Demographics of Hungary? Among this where a different census on the population of Northern Transsylvania wile was under Romanian rule and re-worded a phrase that even it's source showed the first Romanian name registered in Hungarian lands, it said it was "supposed romanian name" which oviously shows bias.

It is very clear that the page, Demographics of Hungary has a problem with bias. And even though in the talk section contributions from a different perspective are ecoraged, that means nothing if people like you just delet them. L'grand Anonim (talk) 10:48, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@L'grand Anonim:,

Hi,

the following reasons:

-it is noted in the relevant section that the census was based on langauge

-removal of data

-fleeding refugees have also after WW1, since by the revolutions and interventions in Hungary the war continued some places, and/or later by the occupying foreign authorities expelled them, etc.

-ortography, etc.

-you swapped census with estimations

-'Ola' may refer to a supposed Romanian, but not in Romanian

-immigration is not necessarily identical with foreigners living in Hungary, as well not sure what others would refer exactly

I disagree there would be any bias, especially on the issues you outlined here, given the earlier mentioned.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:40, 21 November 2020 (UTC))[reply]

-I still not see why there is a problem with adding the results of the Romanian census of 1930, as Norther Trassylvania is the rgion which is discused. Multiple sources are always wellcomed, and it would be nice for the reader to see some of the ambiguity related to related area. -I honestly don't know what to thing of putting estimation of 1400's side by side with actual census data. But after all this is not an important issue for me so I'll let it be. -Even though the source given uses the word 'refugees' it also says this were mostly former administrators of the lost regions. So the word 'refugees' might give the wrong impresion, which I feel that you also got that impresion. -This does demand editing but not erasing. -It is about the Hungarian census of 1941 being language based and not being as in deept region wise as the 1930 one, as some sources suggest. I planed to ad something on that but wile editing I forgot about it. But I do agree that should have been changed. -well either way it is the first recorded Romanian name (as most people of that name live in Romania) but I disagree completly with the usage of the word 'supposed' as this would suggest scepticism to the finding. I still thing I should've been written as "the firs recorded romanian name". -Well the only souce used in that section is title Foreigners in Hungary or something like that, so you might get why I'm not sure if it talks only about Immigration or there are other categories immplied there.

I will readd the 1930 census, which I think there isn't a problem with. And I will expect what you think the best wording for the Ola, Immigration and Refugees situations are, or if you have some other thoughts on anything I said. L'grand Anonim (talk) 13:36, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@L'grand Anonim:,

- I did no say adding the 1930 Romanian census would be a problem, but you did not add that

- Everything before the modern times are estimations, as regular censuses have been conducted later

- Not really, more hundreds/thousand of people were not just administrators

- and/or necessarily other issues as well

- it is not our call to judge how the census were conducted, there could be many other whereabouts also other censuses, we care that is official.

- given several controversies of the etymologies that time may just safely supposed assertions for that time

- than it's best to leave as it is

Apart from said above, I only want to say whatyou added is again not the 1930 census data, this will be corrected.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:47, 22 November 2020 (UTC))[reply]

OK, I double checked the direct source and yes thouse weren't the numbers of the 1930 census, but estimations based on 1940 imcomplet statistics. I'll leave at the your last edit.

It might be that many weren't, but that's not what the source says. The source says that most were former administrator. And given the curent source for that number, the usage of the word refugee is uncalled for.

I will just remove the word "supposed" as that clearly implies scepticism to the finding, and honestly why even have that in the articale if it's sceptical of it's own source.

L'grand Anonim (talk) 18:10, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is not skepticism, the given work does not address, but suppose (and does not mention literally Romanian).(KIENGIR (talk) 19:33, 22 November 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Taking your edit conflict one by one:

- The version of L'grand Anonim under the File:Hungary1910-1920.png|thumb|right|250px| is NPOV complaint. The other version however, has a fair amount of editorial bias. It mentions the 3,425,000 ethnic Hungarians found themselves separated from their motherland but doesn't put in into context with the 10.000.000 non-ethinic Hungarians who united with their motherland due to Hungary's loss of territory.

- "Population with non-Hungarian mother tongue in the Kingdom of Hungary" is correct, because the census was based on primary used langauge. We don't know whether there were non-Hungarians who used Hungarian as the primary language, and given that Hungary had that territory for almost 1000 years, its likely their number was significant.

- They are not refugees. This is not even semantics, they don't fit the definition of a refugees. "Relocated" is a better term.

- Calling the annexations "improvements" and denying there is a Hungarian bias? Seriously?

- I think those in 1940 were estimations not censues. There is a 1940 official estimation made by the Romanians and a 1940 official estimation made by the Hungarians. So they should be called as such. But other than that, why use the 1941 numbers when you have the 1940 numbers? Again, obvious Hungarian bias. You may possibliy doubt the validity of the estimations, just like L'grand Anonim doubted the validity of the 1941 census, but as you said, it is not our call to judge how the estimations were conducted, we care that they are official estimations.

- It depends on what the source says. But what if you replace "recorded" and "supposed" with "possible", is that a good compromise?

- If the research was made by Hungarians it should be noted hungarian "however according to other hungarian researches the Hungarian ethnic group in Transylvania was in decent majority" as it in L'grand Anonim. Iconian42 (talk) 14:18, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

- There is not any bias, I don't what you refer of this article is about Demographics on Hungary

- that information is already present in the census section, no need to duplicate

- this is your opinion, however your appproach is unclear

- L'grand Anonim simply recurrently modified and added incorrect data, confusing and conflating everything, not the section is accurate, it's so easy

- the original version was also, good, this is as well, I oppose change

- in that section we don't attrinbute rearchees, unless we mention their names.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:38, 4 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

- There is plenty of bias, and rather obvious. Context is important regadless of the name of page. It's like saying the Soviet occupation of Karelia reunited 10.000 of Russians with the motherland, nevermind that 400.000 Finns found themselves separated from their motherland.

- The phrase "non-Hungarian population in the Kingdom of Hungary, based on 1910 census data" is incorrect regardless of whether that information is already present in the census section or not.

- It's not my opinion, it is the definition of the word. My appproach is that the Hungarians who left pre-Trianon Hungary for post-Trianon Hungary were not refugees and L'grand Anonim's choice of words was accurate.

- The data she added was correct, it's just that those were official estimations rather than censues, it's easy indeed.

- So it's settled on "possible" I guess.

- Why not? Considering that the research is about the population of Transylvania before the 1730 statistics, it's important to know who made them, for both sides. Would it be okay to you if I mention their names instead? Iconian42 (talk) 16:19, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Our Homeland Movement (Mi Hazánk Mozgalom)

Hello. I've seen in this english Wikipedia, that you reverted my changes. So, the other unnamed user, which have don't created to himself the new user in this Wikipedia, that user writed the Our Homeland Movement's page ideology, the Fascism ideology, and i removed it, and i writed the Neoconservative ideology, which is correct to the party, like the Constitution Party (USA)'s ideology. So, that party has the Neoconservative ideology, like National Conservatism, Social Conservatism, and Conservatism, which is correct to László Toroczkai's political party, which they are hates the communists and the liberals, like the MIÉP and the FKGP, and the Republican Party (USA). I believe the Our Homeland Movement is an Neoconservative party, which is similar to the Constitution Party (USA), they are strongly conservative, like Donald Trump, and Vladimir Putin, and also Marine Le Pen, and Matteo Salvini. But the party did not entered the European Union Parliament, because the party is not gained the 5 % limit, only 3 % limit, and the LMP gained the 2 % level limit, but the Jobbik gained the 6 % level limit, like the MSZP, so the two parties are entered, but only 1 members only, the Momentum Movement have 2 members, and the Democratic Coallition has got the 4 members in the EU Parliament, the Fidesz 13 and the KDNP got 1 member in the EU Parliament. So, the Our Homeland Movement is the Conservative party, and Radical Right-Wing party, which that means Far-Right party, in Hungarian language means Radikális Jobboldal and Szélsőjobboldal, while the Munkáspárt is the Far-Left political party, that means Szélsőbaloldali party in Hungarian language, which is the party is the communist party, but it's Eurosceptic, like the Our Homeland Movement, and the Fidesz party. Anyway, i just saying that. I understand you, that it needs some proof, but some media news saying, that Our Homeland Movement is the Conservative and the Eurosceptic ideology party, and also Far-Right party, like the Jobbik, but the Jobbik is not right-wing party anymore, because they changed the political ideology to Pro-European and Liberal Conservative ideology. That's all i know, have nice day! --TomFZ67 (talk) 22:20, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TomFZ67:,

the party is already addressed with three ideologies containing conservative, so adding/for a Neoconservatism designation would need some confirmation, especially that it was born in the United States. Regarding issues of other parties, they are discussed in the appropriate places. Have a nice day you too!(KIENGIR (talk) 22:58, 22 November 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Polak Weger dwa bratanki

Colleague, you are a wikipedian since I don't know when old. I hate to remind you about WP:NOR/WP:SYNTH. You have to use sources that indicate the relevance of the examples to the article cited. Lembit Staan (talk) 17:01, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Lembit Staan:,

you could have added the sources by your own, instead of putting me extra work to source trivialities, excuse me.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:11, 23 November 2020 (UTC))[reply]

ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. --Rsk6400 (talk) 07:19, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Invasion of Yugoslavia

I agree with removal of Hungarians for now. Though Croat, Slovene and German is in the sources for sure. So your edit seems finae and the article stable now. Thanks and stay well, OyMosby (talk) 02:54, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fidesz

Hey, I saw that you undid my most recent edit on Fidesz. There's an ongoing WP:CITEKILL in the ideology section in the infobox which I fixed by stacking them up with 'Explanatory footnotes' (efn) because most of those references mention Fidesz as a far-right/extreme right party. The ideology section looked fine before someone vandalized it on 14th November, is there an explanation behind this? Vacant0 (talk) 17:46, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

but you changed the lead as well, right-wing populism is an idelogy (present at the ideology section), while right-wing politics is a designation/orientation. Moreover, the 14 November edit was not a vandalism, because the designation the IP removed never gained consensus, but indeed really was pushed by several vandals as well.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:24, 2 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Do you agree that the text should be changed to "...is a right-wing national-conservative political party in Hungary" because it makes more sense. I agree with you on the second thing but I think that it should be fixed too. Vacant0 (talk) 19:08, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If my understanding is correct, you wish to change the order of words in the lead, that's fine. Regarding the second thing if you just and only insert efn to collect sources without any modification, then no problem.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:20, 2 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

'Do not disambiguate'

Hi KIENGIR, on two different pages you added an intentional link to a disambiguation page (Kingdom of Croatia), specifying not to disambiguate them using a comment. A better way to do this is to link to the redirect Kingdom of Croatia (disambiguation), as in [[Kingdom of Croatia (disambiguation)|Kingdom of Croatia]]. That way, the links still go to Kingdom of Croatia as intended, but they do not show up at Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links and no one will try to fix them. Lennart97 (talk) 12:34, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Lennart97:,

thank you, will follow the principle as you said in the future!(KIENGIR (talk) 12:43, 7 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Fidesz

I checked the talk page of this article. There is no consensus not to include authoritarianism in the infobox. This is supported by multiple reliable citations. Please do not remove it. I also completely disagree with only placing one of the two cited positions in the infobox in the lead section. Either we include both right-wing and far-right if they are both cited, or neither. To have both positions cited in the infobox but only include one in the lead weights in one particular direction where we should remain as neutral as possible. I would have just as much problem including far-right and not right-wing, as again, both are cited. Helper201 (talk) 14:43, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Helper201:,

that is another issue, which you have no consensus right now, since you misundertand things about it. About the other issue, it is not as you say, there is a long standing appropriate version, while the infobox modification never gained consensus, and it represents only how some sources may describe the party, but Fidesz is not and never been a far-right party, per neutrality especially we have to avoid stating opinions as facts.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:52, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR:. Yes, they are separate issues. Which is why I disagree with you reverting all my edits as one. There is no consensus against authoritarianism and it has multiple supporting citations. Without a consensus you should be the one attempting to form one rather than simply reverting me. As for far-right, if you disagree with this description seek consensus to have it removed entirely, not exist in one area of the page but somehow not allow it to be included in another area, that makes no sense. If it is included in one area of the page it has just as much right to be included in another section. Helper201 (talk) 14:57, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Helper201:,

sorry, if your edits were problematic, I had to do like so. Sorry, there is no consensus even for, that's the point, however the way you wish to it is not applicable, since it is not an ideology, moreover it is already part of the article where it belongs. Sorry, about the other issue I don't have to gain any consensus for removal, since I may remove it any time, as it has been added without consensus, just there are some editors so much crying to also identify such opinions, so they are appeased for now.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:03, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR: authoritarianism is a political ideology. Please see the page list of political ideologies. This is not an opinion; it is what was founded to be stated by reliable sources. Helper201 (talk) 15:09, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Helper201:,

again you misunderstand, it is not an ideology of Fidesz, ideology is formed by the party itself (anyway "authoritarianism" is a collective umbrella term there, contrary what you say), some other opinions or accusations does not change this, these are present already in the criticism section.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:12, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Hungarian language

May I ask what the *** are you doing and why you're doing it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brutal Russian (talk • contribs) 19:28, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think you should change tone and better present your claims in the talk page. Thank You.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:30, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

It's you who are stealth-reverting my perfectly reasonable and sourced changes without any justification whatsoever. What you're reverting back is unsourced schizophasic word-association in the best style of internet protochronists that doesn't belong on this website. I will change my tone when you stop trying to sneak that drivel onto the website.Brutal Russian (talk) 19:34, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I oppose this style, there is not any "stealth" anything, etc. I can recommend the same as before.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:37, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I don't understand what you're recommending. What claims do you, who reverts my sourced changes to absolutely schizophasic unsourced gibberish, want me to present?Brutal Russian (talk) 19:40, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Present in the article's talk page detailed your concerns, point by point what you want to modify and why, as a first step.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:46, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Why would I want to do that? I'm free to remove every and all unsourced gibberish, reorder the text in a more readable fashion and clarify it, and change the Latin orthography to display accent in rhythmic verse and/or in accordance with the critical edition which I cite. This is all in line with wikipedia's Be bold guideline and whatever guidelines there are against unsourced pseudoscientific gibberish. This section lacks and and all references altogether and I would be justified in completely purging it. It is you who needs to present your concerns regarding my edits. What you're doing is simple interference with well-meaning edits from a standpoint of ignorance. Being ignorant on the matter does qualify you for asking questions, but it does not qualify you for interfering with informed edits. Brutal Russian (talk) 19:52, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry our policies are clear about dispute resolution, now you are not in the best place, as told before. You have to explain your edits there detailed to possibly gain consensus.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:00, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Stop telling me what I need to do. Did you spot a occasional and inexperienced editor and decided that's your opportunity to bully someone? Cite the precise rule/guideline on which I'm not in the best place. Ditto for why I have to explain removing unsourced gibberish. There is no dispute, you're simply silently revering well-meaning changes out of being sad. In short, you're free to provide your objections to my edits on the talk page; I'm not obliged to provide anything to anyone because my edit removes unscourced gibberish and improves presentation of existing text. Brutal Russian (talk) 20:08, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, this discussion here is over, in fact you are bullying me with continous messages. WP:TPG, WP:DR, e.g.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:14, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

My edits are not in disagreement with anything discussed at the talk page and no aspects of my changes have been discussed. There is no conflict between my edits and any existing consensus - what you're doing is WP:GAME and and I ask you to stop. Please feel free to address your concerns at the talk page. Please refrain from rude unexplained reverts WP:DE WP:ROWN before discussing. If you personally have no opinion, input or suggestions concerning my edits, please move on and leave the matter to those who are truly interested to help. I will restore my edits and I ask that you don't revert them without a proper discussion. Brutal Russian (talk) 20:40, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, not understanding our conduct and guidelines is not an excuse, as well should analyze appropriately our policies before you address them, especially here, not appropriately. Talking about rudeness from your behalf is quite amusing, given the style what you performed here, this is something you did, recurrently.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:48, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

The reason for the rudeness of my initial style is obvious: you rudely reverted my edits without an explanation. My edits are not in violation of any guidelines or with any previous consensus. There's no such guideline that requires me to discuss any and all edits before making them. The guideline is the opposite - discuss existing edits you disagree with. If anybody disagrees with my edits, this is a matter for discussion. It is you who's violating the guidelines. Your behaviour is even more insulting given that the same unsourced gibberish was removed from the article Name_of_Hungary in 2015 IN THE NEXT EDIT without any indicent, because it's blatant pseudoscientific drivel. You're engaging in WP:GAME, WP:DE and WP:ROWN. Stop. Brutal Russian (talk) 20:59, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, no, read back your own comments, like "what the *** are", "Being ignorant", "sneak", etc. this is by far and you are still rude, should not be like that by any means, and again, not understanding correctly our basic policies is a problem, similarly inappropriately addressing them to others, especially you still did not understand WP:TPG and still commenting here.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:10, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I'm commenting here because I protest against your rude and unexplained reverts. These violated WP:DE and WP:ROWN and caused my reasonable indignation. I've repeatedly invited you to discuss my changes that you reverted on the talk page - you haven't. I will be there in case you decide to do so. As to not understanding basic policies, you're welcome to explain the policies that I supposedly don't understand. Only when I understand what I'm doing wrong can I start doing it right. Otherwise you're engaging in precisely the same toxic behaviour as before while falsely and repeatedly accusing me as a pretext for that behaviour. If you cannot question my edits, don't revert them. If you cannot explain what I'm doing wrong, keep silent on the matter. Brutal Russian (talk) 21:24, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is totally unnecesary to repeat and copy-paste your previous posts here, two reverts does not violate WP:DE, such needs a long term analysis, per WP:CIVILITY, the style you perform here would be a violation in fact (like the new one "toxic"). No, I told you first to discuss in the appropriate place, which you rejected, and you were explained everything, and you still reject. Not understanding is not an excuse, as well. So, if you continue from now on here, it may be in fact considered DE, and since the beginning violated WP:TPG, so please just stop here.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:30, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Kingdom of Italy

I'm not sure why you reverted my edit to Kingdom of Italy. Is there a reason you think the article should not conform to MOS:DASH, or use punctuation consistently? – Arms & Hearts (talk) 23:20, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Arms & Hearts:,

sorry, that was not the original intent, but the inappropriate flag change, which is not connected to you. It seems now your edit has been reinstated, sorry for the inconvenience, Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 23:27, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Thanks for clarifying. It hasn't been reinstated though – if it had been I wouldn't have raised it with you. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 23:32, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Arms & Hearts:,

Oh sorry, I my mistake, I did it now, please check it, Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 23:42, 8 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

That's great, thanks for taking care of it. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 14:27, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, regarding East Asian people

Hello Kiengir. Could you please take the East Asian people page on your watch list? The newly created user O'Hara seems to have some ideological motivated views and he includes POV terms such as "East Asian race" and seems to dislike the closer relation between East and Southeast Asians. I have not as much time as I want to contribute to Wikipedia. Kind regards.195.123.241.29 (talk) 10:36, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@195.123.241.29:,

Hi, don't worry, I am watching the page. The "East Asian race" is still present in the article after your edits in the footnotes. However, I do think genetic researches should be mentioned marginally and only studies comply woith WP:MEDRS should be displayed (more or less many genetic researches may claim anything, etc.). Well, regarding what you said about time, I also share...the best is to use the article's talk page to raise your concerns. Kind Regards as well!(KIENGIR (talk) 15:29, 13 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Köszönöm!

Én is áldott, békés karácsonyt kívánok neked és a családodnak. Borsoka (talk) 08:49, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Europe Eurasia

Hey! Terlines? Is discontented with the modifications on Western World. But I started a talk page to have discussion on it. (Luckily he doesn't seem to be some brutish silent revert everything but his own edits kind of guy.) Anyways, as the region described is both Eastern Europe and Northern Asia (In the source material Central Asia ought to be included, there are several discussion threads about fixing that as well apparently), and politically and geographically relevant and connected with both Europe, Asia and such political organizations and economies. I.e. Eurasian Union, CSTO, Shanghai Organization, joint military exercises with Mongolia, Eurovision and Eurocup, etc. I was wondering if you might contribute to the chat on the word choice update, to make it more appropriate, inclusive and respectful, and geographically relevant. Merry Christmas! DxRxXxZx (talk) 00:46, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DxRxXxZx:,

don't worry I watch the page, if I have something to say will do it. Merry Christmas to you as well!(KIENGIR (talk) 00:59, 26 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you!! DxRxXxZx (talk) 01:10, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Left-wing nationalism's hatnote about Nazism

Regarding this, it has nothing to do with Soviet historiography. Are all these Soviet propaganda sources?

• Spielvogel, Jackson J. (2010) [1996] Hitler and Nazi Germany: A History New York: Routledge. p. 1 ISBN 978-0131924697 Quote: "Nazism was only one, although the most important, of a number of similar-looking fascist movements in Europe between World War I and World War II."
• Orlow, Dietrick (200) The Lure of Fascism in Western Europe: German Nazis, Dutch and French Fascists, 1933–1939 London: Palgrave Macmillan, pp. 6–9. ISBN 978-0230608658. Excerpt
• Eley, Geoff (2013) Nazism as Fascism: Violence, Ideology, and the Ground of Consent in Germany 1930–1945 New York: Routledge. ISBN 978-0415812634
• Kailitz, Steffen and Umland, Andreas (2017). "Why Fascists Took Over the Reichstag but Have Not captured the Kremlin: A Comparison of Weimar Germany and Post-Soviet Russia". Nationalities Papers. 45 (2): 206–21.

Yes, there were some difference between Italian Fascism and Nazism, or between Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, but both are considered forms of fascism by scholars of fascism. Unless you can get that part removed from the lead of Nazism, the hatnote should reflect that article. Davide King (talk) 01:01, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Davide King:,

The Soviet historiography the same way pushed and conflated the term as some non-Soviets, I just said they started it enormously. Just because it is considered a form, it does not mean we are allowed/have to to replace it everywhere and identify National Socialism/Nazism as Fascism, and it has nothing to with lead of that article's statement.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:23, 27 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

This makes no sense. I showed you that Western historiography supports the notion of Nazism being a form of fascism, irrelevant of whatever the Soviets thought. We should use Nazism because that is the common name and because National Socialism is itself lending to Nazi propaganda, who never used, apart from a brief period, the term "Nazi" or "Nazism." So your argument about Soviet propaganda, which is nonetheless irrelevant, equally applies to Nazi propaganda which uses National Socialism to imply they are really socialists. Either way, all of this is irrelevant. Unless you can get to change it from the lead of Nazism, we should be consistent across articles and refer to it as far-right fascism. Davide King (talk) 13:11, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Davide King:,

don't overthink and overcomplicate, or simply understand appropriately what I have written. What you showed was not denied, thus your assertion, even the premise is irrelevant. Also this particular issue - as indicated - is not about the usage of Nazi/National Socialist, which has been countless times discussed (we refer it like so by the article's context, to give reason of possible confusion). There is not such "consistency" like referring Nazism as "far-right fascism". Nope. They have several relations and considerations, but the two is not the same.(KIENGIR (talk) 13:25, 27 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I just showed you that Nazism is indeed referred to as a form of fascism and as far-right. "They have several relations and considerations, but the two is not the same." Then what are they, if not fascism? You seem to be confusing fascism (Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany and Francoist Spain) with Italian Fascism (Fascist Italy). All these three states had some differences but their commonalities were stronger, hence why they are usually grouped together, especially the first two. Davide King (talk) 13:52, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Davide King:, so what? I don't confuse anything. An ocelot and a puma is also cosidered or referred similar, but they are still not the same. "Usual groupings" are made because of certain circumstances, however it does not should make us superficial, etc.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:02, 27 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Experts and scholars of fascism group them together, so we follow reliable sources. If you disagree, go get references to fascism removed from Nazism and try making Fascism only about Italian Fascism. We discuss Nazi Germany at Fascism, so I am just being consistent between each article. If you disagree with the grouping, the onus is on you to try getting changed, not on me, who is merely trying to be consistent across articles. Davide King (talk) 14:10, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Davide King:,

Again do not confuse groupings some things by some criteria to be identical (and again the issue has nothing to with "removing references" of the mentioned article). What you try to outline has nothing to with "consistency". And in the future, please, carefully read and interpret what I have written, to save time , since how try to insist the issue on my behalf is erroneus.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:30, 27 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Where am I saying they are identical? I even stated there are differences, just like there are differences between democratic socialism and authoritarian socialism, or social liberalism and economic liberalism; this does not mean Nazism is not a form of fascism. As things stands, it is reliable sources (presented above) against your personal views. "And in the future, please, carefully read and interpret what I have written, to save time , since how try to insist the issue on my behalf is erroneus." I try, but I do not always comprehend your writing, which is not always clear. Davide King (talk) 14:37, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Davide King:, sorry I don't have to time to deal with editor's comprehension issues at this level (it's clear anyway), so this discussion ends here, the last time I reply, after please avoid posting to my talk page regarding this issue. I did not say it is not considered as a form by some scholars, etc., hence your repetition is useless, I said something else, which may be read above (hence your remark about "personal views" are ignored and considered null and void.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:45, 27 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Notice

Please do not attack other editors. You accused me of making up and falsifying information and I caught you right in the act. You have repeatedly called me problematic despite my sourcing and citing.Fenetrejones (talk) 02:27, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Really good joke, unfortunately copy-pasting the warning I fairly gave you because of your personal attacks against me is the worst you could do. Sad boomerang.(KIENGIR (talk) 02:43, 29 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I did not attack. I said one thing that was a scenario and I said that would make him a liar, You lied. People can lie and make mistakes. You have also been very disrespectful too .Fenetrejones (talk) 02:52, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, evidence is clear, and I was not disrespectful with you, but very patient, even more than usual. Please avoid my talk page.(KIENGIR (talk) 03:08, 29 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I will leave you alone, but you claim to be respectful, then why did you say "Besides that, you as well address/insist allegations to me I never said." and "Look, you continously put words, examples to my mouth which I did not say, and since the beginning did not grab exacly what I said, but pushing your own considerations all around and presenting that it would be mine, with unnecessary repetitions and flooding the talk page disruptively. I won't explain it the nth time, may be read above. WP:NOTFORUM." You said that I was making stuff up and accused me of spreading false information and I caught you red handed on that. Your accusation are anything but polite.Fenetrejones (talk) 03:16, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I won't epxlain what I have already explained more times, evidence is clear, competence issues are not my duty to remedy, and I warn you the last time to avoid my talk page.(KIENGIR (talk) 03:20, 29 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

You are now a Pending Changes Reviewer!

Hi KIENGIR! I've been running into you while patrolling logs and recent changes, and I happened to notice that you don't have the pending changes reviewer rights. I hope you don't mind, but I went through your contributions and I noticed that you're quite active in recent changes patrolling and that you consistently view and undo vandalism and bad faith disruption. I believe that the pending changes reviewer rights would be useful for you to have and that you'd make good use of the tools. Instead of having you formally request the rights at WP:PERM, I went ahead and just gave it to you. This user right allows you to review edits that are pending approval on pages currently under pending changes protection and either accept the edits to make them viewable by the general public, or decline and revert them.

Please keep these things in mind regarding the tool or when you're reviewing any pending changes:

• A list of articles with pending edits awaiting review can be viewed at Special:PendingChanges.
• A list of the articles currently under pending changes protection can be viewed at Special:StablePages.
• Being granted and having these rights does not grant you any additional "status" on Wikipedia, nor does it change how Wikipedia policies apply to you (obviously).
• You'll generally want to accept any pending changes that appear to be legitimate edits and are not blatant vandalism or disruption, and reject edits that are problematic or that you wouldn't accept yourself.
• Never accept any pending changes that contain obvious and clear vandalism, blatant neutral point of view issues, copyright violations, or BLP violations.

Useful guidelines and pages for you to read:

• Wikipedia:Reviewing pending changes, the guideline and tutorial on using the rights and reviewing pending changes.
• Wikipedia:Pending changes, a summary of pending changes protection, the pending changes user right, and how it applies.
• Wikipedia:Protection policy#Pending changes protection, the policy section on pending changes protection and its appropriate application and use by administrators.

I'm sure you'll do fine with the reviewer rights - it's a pretty straight-forward tool and it doesn't drastically change the interface that you're used to already. Nonetheless, please don't hesitate to leave me a message on my user talk page if you run into any questions, get stuck anywhere, or if you're not sure if you should accept or revert pending changes to a page - I'll be more than be happy to help you. If you no longer want the pending changes reviewer rights, let me know and I'll be happy to remove it for you. Thank you for helping to patrol recent changes and keep Wikipedia free of disruption and vandalism - it's a very thankless job to perform and I want you to know that it doesn't go unnoticed and that I appreciate it very much. Happy editing! :-D ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 07:52, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Some random advice

You may want to consider archiving this page. It's getting quite long, and it'll be helpful to readers if they don't have to scroll past the old stuff. Just figured I'd let you know about it. :-) Cheers - ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 07:57, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Oshwah:,

Thank you very much for the additional rights, it's a honor, I'll do my best as well in the future to prove your trust is well set! Archiving I deliberately do not chose so nothing is hidden in my history, everything is transparent. My only concern is lately many time is consumed to dealing with abusive accounts who find me and tire me, but I try to be extremely patient with them, however I'll keep in mind what you told me on your talk page, as an advice. I wish Happy Editing and a Happy New Year for both of us, if I'll face any trouble I could not handle, will let you know, Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 08:11, 29 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

No problem! Remember that nothing is ever hidden. Everything can be found by looking at the page's edit history. Nearly all experienced editors will archive their user talk pages (including myself!), and there's no problem with doing so. If you do things correctly, people will be able to easily find anything they are looking for. I manually archive my user talk page, and if you look there, I organize my archives by month where you can easily click and find what you're looking for. It's up to you; eventually, you'll find that it's necessary due to how long your user talk page will grow. ;-) ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 08:58, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reverts on Artúr Görgei

I already started a section on the article's talk page to discuss this. No sections were removed, I merged two paragraphs together. Please tell me exactly your problem with my edit is, because I can't see anything objectionable.TGWZoldorf (talk) 17:36, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Niczuly

Hello, I see you reverted my edit on Roland Niczuly. There are two thing you don't understand: 1. The nationality is not linked, you don't need to put a link to Romania, when you say he is Romanian 2. His ethnicity is not relevant, he is a Romanian citizen and a Romanian footballer, unless he ever plays for Hungary. If you want to write about his heritage you can create a "Personal life" paragraph. Thank you8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 23:24, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@8Dodo8:,

I just partially reverted the edit, I don't think there would be anything I would not understand:

1. It's an option, however I find here linking better

2. It's again an option, and such is not only identified or necessary if he would ever play for Hungary.

I wish you a Happy New Year!(KIENGIR (talk) 23:30, 30 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Please take a look at WP:Ethnicity. It explains this situation pretty well. Thanks for the wishes and habe a happy New Year too!8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 23:47, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@8Dodo8:,

I know that guideline, but this article is little and short, later it may be improved, at least such is a standard practise mostly of Romanian players of Hungarian background. La Multi Ani, Best wishes for the next year!(KIENGIR (talk) 23:53, 30 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

BÚÉK

Boldog új évet és sok sikeres szerkesztést kívánok a következő esztendőre! --Norden1990 (talk) 10:23, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Norden1990:,

Thanks, I wish the same for you! Don't know how you are exactly with time, but I see you less around...Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 19:45, 31 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Why are you doing this?

Dear KIENGIR, you reverted my edits on Hungarian exonyms without any communication, still you are saying "to change the article's scope needs consensus" implying that you are a person for whom communication is important. First, the article's scope was not changed, it was made matching its title. Exonymy according to the Wikipedia article Endonym and exonym: "is a common, external name for a geographical place, group of people, individual person, or a language/dialect, that is used only outside that particular place, group, or linguistic community." That means, a Hungarian exonym is not identical to a Hungarian place name outside the borders of Hungary. Secondly, changing the tables and extending them takes time, that is why only part of them were changed and extended, not because I had an intention of creating a mixed layout for the tables within the same article. Unfortunately, after your reversion of the article, which I think was a rather harsh action normally reserved for vandalism, I could not continue this work. KR, Timur lenk (talk) 10:51, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dear @Timur lenk:,

believe I did it for good reasons, once I tried to do partially what you did and as well was reverted, so my work has been lost and the working hour, from this I wanted to prevent you in time. Well practically any user could have done what I did. Moreover I akcnowledged your useful moves and intro updates in the other articles so, your argumentation about the content issue I accept, despite, for technical reasons, in this article we should make the improvement slowly, step-by-step.

I preserved most of your new additions. I think this article should contain either exonyms, and either Hungarian place names outside the borders of Hungary, We should prior agree in a new table structure, if it has to be contructed due to the planned changes, etc. As well, I suggest, upon agreed, we should apply it only one country, and review if we did not miss something, and if it'll be fine, then apply it to others. Make your proposals in the article's talk, and I will catch up.

Thank you for your understanding, and I Wish You A Happy New Year!(KIENGIR (talk) 20:15, 31 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

So if I understand your response correctly, you wanted to do the same as me, but some superpower has reverted your edits and you yielded to this power instead of countering it, and in order to protect me you reverted my edits so this superpower won't get infuriated. If so, we indeed should discuss it on the talk page :) Timur lenk (talk) 22:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Timur lenk:,

your summarization I'll take as one after a New Year party :) Btw., no "superpowers" involved, but we have to follow the formal procedure likely - such as consensus - so later the work could not be lost. Yes, in the article's talk page you should start the discussion.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:57, 1 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Please, the work was not simply 'lost' but you reverted it. (My edit is still in the editing history, so not lost.) And your reason is that anyone could revert it. But it was you who reverted so that is why I am asking you (not 'anyone') why you did it. So I would still like to know why you reverted my edits? And also, which edit on this article of yours was reverted? Could you find out, why that happened? Timur lenk (talk) 23:55, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Timur lenk:,

I already explained to you in my first answer. It was at the Royal Free City article (present at the history, as you referred) when I tried to put Hungarian names first. The official reasoning was some kind of naming conventions and ease for English readers, but the motivation behind could be something else as well...(KIENGIR (talk) 00:25, 2 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Happy New Year

@TimothyBlue:,

Thank You, I wish you also a Better Happy New Year! Best Regards!(KIENGIR (talk) 19:57, 31 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Szőcsvásár

You have reverted my change in headword Suceava where I deleted the coinage Szőcsvásár as a Hungarian name of this city. Probably you have sources and written data that support the historical and factual existence of Szőcsvásár, in spite of the fact that even Pál Péter Domonkos did not found this kind of sources and data, and therefore he did not include this coinage in his work “A moldvai magyarság” [30]. If you cannot present evidence of the historical and factual existence of Szőcsvásár, please undo your reversion. LvT (talk) 21:54, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@LvT:,

the section did not say the word had a historical and factual existence, just listed as a Hungarian variant, shall anywhere it come from. I see you as well removed it from another article as not notable, but here, in the mother article should be kept, you may add a note explaining is background if you wish. I wish you a Happy New Year!(KIENGIR (talk) 22:06, 31 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR: If a place name has neither historical nor factual existence in the Hungarian language, it cannot be a Hungarian variant. You have to prove its existence in the text corpus. In fact, Szőcsvásár is missing from the Hungarian corpus except borrowings from Wikipedia headwords, cf. "do not use websites that mirror Wikipedia content or publications that rely on material from Wikipedia as sources." Wikipedia:Verifiability LvT (talk) 22:36, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@LvT:,

The word has a factual existence, just google it, even used by modern sources, so I think the best is to give a note as an explanation.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:28, 1 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Searching Hungarian-language sites, I have found now 15 hits on the Google for quoted expression "Szőcsvásár", 223 hits for "Szucsáva" and 1450 hits for "Suceava". This means that Szőcsvásár accounts for only 0.9% of occurrences. This is well below the margin of error. If incorrect information is posted on Wikipedia, it will eventually be repeated by other sites. But that is no reason to keep the fake information on Wikipedia. LvT (talk) 11:26, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year!

Hello! Happy New Year! --TomFZ67 (talk) 11:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@TomFZ67:,

I wish you a Happy New Year too! Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 18:35, 1 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Southern Europe

Hello KIENGIR, I don't want to conflict with you but can you stop putting subjective maps on the page and leave the official maps ? Why cut France in two? And why are you putting France in Southern Europe ??? France has neither the climate nor the southern European culture. Nobody puts France in southern Europe. Otherwise we make a chapter at the end of the article "the French vision of southern Europe" why not, but we cannot cut countries in two and put personal ideas.

Regions of Europe based on CIA World Factbook:

  Northern Europe

  Western Europe

  Central Europe

  Southwest Europe

  Southern Europe

  Southeast Europe

  Eastern Europe

European sub-regions according to EuroVoc:

  Northern Europe

  Western Europe

  Southern Europe

  Central and Eastern Europe

European climate. The Köppen-Geiger climates map is presented by the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia and the Global Precipitation Climatology Center of the Deutscher Wetterdienst. We can see the natural borders of the mountain ranges of the Alps, Pyrenees, and Balkans.

--81.67.153.44 (talk) 12:00, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@81.67.153.44:,

Hello, there are various maps, so-called official and non-official, if you have any specific problem address is exactly. I did not cut France in two, neither put it into Southern Europe. In the article's talk page you have to gain consensus for further changes, until the current version remains, propose there what you want first, and we will review it.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:28, 2 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Alas no southern europe is not an idea, many maps are official. So even the historical maps or the Spanish-Italian-Portuguese alliances against the Ottomans and the Germanic populations of the Franks during the Holy League (1571).--81.67.153.44 (talk) 12:51, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I may just reiterate what I said before.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:57, 2 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Delete official maps and install maps made by a wikipedia user. It's called disinformation. I think you can understand that here it is better to leave the official cards--81.67.153.44 (talk) 13:07, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, the things are not as you try to present, please try to understand our policies. Some of your edits were accepted, some not, the page preserves until an earlier stage, etc. As well, mind the rest I already told you.(KIENGIR (talk) 13:14, 2 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Article about Ukraine

Hi.

Make changes to the article about Ukraine. First, the name is given in Russian. There is currently only one official language in Ukraine, Ukrainian. As for the Russian language, it does not have such a status. I understand that objectively the name in Russian could be. But in this case, in articles about other countries, including the United States, the name of the country is not given in Spanish, similarly in articles about other countries such as Moldova (where you could also add the name in Russian, because the prevalence of this language in the country), Slovakia 10% are Hungarians and accordingly it would be logical to add the name in Hungarian), and so on. I suggest removing the name of Ukraine in Russian, doing it as in articles about other countries with multilingual populations. Instead, in the introduction to the article, make a paragraph adding about the culture and prevalence of languages ​​in Ukraine.

Secondly, the infobox contains a list of regional languages. This list is based on a law that was declared unconstitutional in 2018. Therefore, it would be correct to provide a list of languages ​​that are most common in Ukraine, namely Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Romanian, Crimean Tatar, and possibly some others.

Third, the infobox does not contain a complete list of Ukrainian historical states. The option that was in the infobox until August 2, 2020 is correct and objective. If you are for the objectivity of which you wrote, then you should know that historically Ukraine is inextricably linked with such states as Kievan Rus, Galicia-Volyn principality, Zaporozhian Army (in correspondence and documents this state was called Ukraine). Severo Joy Krzyżaniwski (talk) 00:47, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Severo Joy Krzyżaniwski:,

The first issue should be discussed along with the regional languages issue, despite of the constitutional debates, those langauges are still used officially an recognized by some level. The infobox issue has been already discussed, especially I agreed to include the last one, but not else, especially because of objectivity and factuality.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

In May 2019, a law was passed to ensure the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the state language, this law confirmed Article 10 of the Constitution of Ukraine, which defines the state language as Ukrainian. Currently, due to the recognition of the previous law on regional languages ​​as unconstitutional and the enactment of a new law on the state language, state and local authorities use only the Ukrainian language.

As for the infobox, namely the list of historical states, you are right when you say that the first state that was officially called Ukraine is the Ukrainian People's Republic. And I understand the logic of presenting the same material in other articles about countries, in particular Bulgaria, as if there was a country, the first Bulgarian kingdom, which was already called Bulgaria, Bulgarian. But in the case of Ukraine, this is not appropriate. Because the same Hetmanate was officially called the Zaporozhian Army, but in the documents it was written, including Ukraine, Little Russia. In particular, in Article 4 of the Constitution of Pylyp Orlyk, or in the correspondence of Hetmans Doroshenko, Bryukhovetsky and Mazepa. Therefore, in my opinion, Kievan Rus and the Galicia-Volyn principality were certainly not Ukrainian, they formed the basis for the formation and development of Ukrainian identity. The paragraph above in the infobox is correct and objective. But as for the Hetmanate, it is Ukraine in its more modern sense. Therefore, I ask you to add to the infobox in the section of historical states Hetmanate, the year of foundation 1649.

As for the section of regional languages ​​in the infobox, it is not correct. Because a regional language is a status that is assigned to a certain language by local or state authorities. Currently, these languages ​​do not have a regional status, so their list is incorrect, moreover, the use of a regional language in this article is incorrect, because it is a legal term that is not provided by the legislation of Ukraine. The following should be provided in the infobox, a list of the most common languages ​​of Ukraine, a list: Russian, Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, Crimean Tatar, Greek, Bulgarian, etc. Add also languages ​​that are autochthonous languages ​​of Ukraine, namely Crimean, Karaite, Gagauz, Ukrainian dialects of Greek (Rumeika, languages mariupolitan greek, and Urum). Severo Joy Krzyżaniwski (talk) 11:36, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Severo Joy Krzyżaniwski:,

about the language issue you already opened a case in the talk, let's wait for other inputs as well. About the other issue if my understanding is correct, you wish me to add the Cossack Hetmanate to the infobox?(KIENGIR (talk) 12:01, 4 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

As for the Hetmanate, yes. It should be added. As for the language. I ask you to remove the name of the country in Russian. As for the list of regional languages ​​in the infobox, we can wait for the opinion of other participants. Severo Joy Krzyżaniwski (talk) 15:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Severo Joy Krzyżaniwski:,

I did it. Regarding the Russian name, better raise it where you did it with the regional languages and wait for other opinions.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:58, 5 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Ok. Thanks. Severo Joy Krzyżaniwski (talk) 09:56, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Alfréd Haar

Hi, I noticed that you changed Alfréd Haar's birthplace from Austria-Hungary to the Kingdom of Hungary. I'll confess that I do not know much about Hungarian history, but as Haar was born in 1885 and Austria-Hungary existed from 1867-1918, wouldn't putting Austria-Hungary as his birthplace be correct? LeBron4 (talk) 00:25, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @LeBron4:,

both versions are ok, however, the one I put is more accurate, since Austria-Hungary was a monarchy of two separate states, the Austrian Empire and the Kingdom of Hungary, and any subject born was Austrian subject, or Hungarian subject, but never both, dual citizenship was even banned (on the other hand a Hungarian territory has never been Austrian and vica-versa).(KIENGIR (talk) 08:19, 6 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Do not Edit war to enforce optional style

In this edit of yours at Germania Superior, you changed from one valid style ("short description") to another ("Short description"), which caused no change on the rendered page or other improvement. This is prohibited by MOS:VAR, which says:

Sometimes the MoS provides more than one acceptable style or gives no specific guidance. The Arbitration Committee has expressed the principle that "When either of two styles are [sic] acceptable it is inappropriate for a Wikipedia editor to change from one style to another unless there is some substantial reason for the change." If you believe an alternative style would be more appropriate for a particular article, discuss this at the article's talk page or—if it raises an issue of more general application or with the MoS itself—at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style.

When reverted with a friendly, AGF edit summary, you re-reverted to enforce your preferred version. The guideline goes on to say:

Edit-warring over style, or enforcing optional style in a bot-like fashion without prior consensus, is never acceptable.

Please don't make changes to articles which have no benefit to the rendered page, but are merely your personal preference for capitalisation, white space, one valid param name for another, or any other optional value covered by MOS:VAR (or WP:CITEVAR). In cases like this, the Arbcom specifies sanctions up to and including blocks for repeated activity of this nature, so please don't. Consider it an extension of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". The Germania Superior page was fine before you got there; your change did nothing to improve it, and every edit should improve the article in some way, however minor. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 10:25, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mathglot:,

I am amazed, if I would not read your name, would not believe it's you. (do you think your precious time worth in such a little nothing? Do you think I did not read the guideline and this formal warning is necessary?)

I don't know of there are more acceptable styles, but what I know what I did is not an "alternative"/"optional" style. Per Wikipedia:Short_description, ...If you need to do a manual fix, please use the correct template name {{Short description}}.

Btw., you're interpretation of edit-warring in your AGF edit summary fails, since beyond many circumstances and frame what is to be considered edit-warring, it was not, first of all it needs to be repeatedly, which was not the case since a user made a bold edit, and I did another one, secondly there have been no dispute among us. This issue you heavily overreacted I think. (my analysis was focused on the events until your first edit)

Consequently, in case in an article from nil or after one bold edit correcting to the correct template description should be a legal move. Have a nice day!(KIENGIR (talk) 11:35, 9 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

@Mathglot:,

per this ([31]), did my ping reach you? I answered to you, so in spite of this I have to object your edit log remark, per the answer I gave you, so please explain yourself.(KIENGIR (talk) 07:43, 10 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I've already explained this to you. As I've said, this is about as small an infraction as one is likely to find on Wikipedia, because it does not make the article worse in any way, it just doesn't make it any better. In fact, it's so trivial, that the guideline recommends against fixing it, as that would also be a trivial change that doesn't improve the article, so with one exception, I've not corrected any of your other pointless changes in violation of MOS:VAR made after the date of the original notice above, and I won't correct any further violations of yours in this area for the same reason, other than the very occasional reminder from time to time, if you decide to keep this up.

More important, in my view, is the fact that someone who engages in trivial stuff like this which gets left in place may often end up either making a habit of it, or engage in other violations, such as of WP:BRD by reverting a second time, instead of discussing it. If an editor interprets failure of other editors to fix the violations as a green light, or edit consensus, and starts to engage in automated edits of this type, or just performs a lot of them, it can start to become disruptive; but we're far from that at this point.

I realize your native language is not English, and I'm willing to make allowances for the fact that you may be using automatic translation. So, let me restate some principles, that I hope will be intelligible through an automatic translator:

• Do not add or subtract white space (blanks, tabs,   etc.) to the wikicode that have no effect on the article when you view it, as you did here, and here.
• Do not change wikicode (such as template names, parameter names, or parameter values) that is already correct, merely for your own preference. This includes:
  • capitalisation of a template name, when it was already correct, such as you did here, and here.
  • changing one valid parameter alias to another, by adding or subtracting a hyphen from the parameter name. (You haven't done this, as far as I know; I'm just advising you of a like situation.)

Your reasoning above about your change is incorrect. You said:

what I know what I did is not an "alternative"/"optional" style.

That is exactly what it was, and the section I quoted above about MOS:VAR explains it. Your quotation, "please use the correct template name" was from the section of the template doc explaining the use of the gadget. *All* templates start with a capital letter in the filename, and all of them are optional; {{citation needed}} is the same thing as {{Citation needed}}, and there is no preference for one over the other; editors who persist in changing them around merely to suit their own preference are in violation of MOS:VAR. Same thing for {{short description}}; if that's the way you found it, and it is working, then please just leave it that way.

With respect to edit warring, you have not exceeded the bright line threshold of WP:3RR, so you are right to the extent that it is not a sanctionable case of edit warring, but it's quite clear what your intent was, and in any case the guideline defines edit warring as "a series of back-and-forth reverts". It stopped, because I refused to engage in it, and you had the last word.

Since the warning above, I notice you have made further edits of this exact same type, altering the capitalisation of {{short description}} on at least a couple more articles (Litovoi, Bărbat) one of which I reverted. You should stop this behavior now and comply with the guideline I quoted to you above, regardless whether anyone reverts you or not. There is no benefit to the article from doing so, and it is against the guideline. As I already stated, if you don't stop, I generally won't undo them anymore, but for ones on my watchlist I'll either make a dummy edit to remind you, or maybe better, I'll just list them here. That way, if you decide that WP:IDHT works for you, and guidelines like MOS:VAR or WP:BRD don't apply to you, someone else can deal with it. Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 04:27, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mathglot:,

- I've already explained this to you -> this is your point, if I would consider it satisfying, would not answer and present of my doubts about your allegations.

- you don't have to repeat what you already said, you should concentrate on what I asked or wanted be clarified, since I disagreed it would be a violation, per my arguments and analysis.

- regarding what you written third pharagraph, I have to reject anything would endorse me to breach rules

- I don't use any automatic translator

- I am able to read the linked guidelines, so listing general details are not necessary

- the presented MOS:VAR section does not tell that the correct form {{Short description}} would be alternate/optional, it tells a guideline in general, but WP:SHORTDESCRIPTION and related guidelines reinforce this the correct version (they does not say optional/alternate). I understand though what you say and what is the intent, but if it is not unambigously written and clatified in our rules and guidelines implicitly and/or explicity, I fairly may dispute, which may result that I have right, or the current guideline would need to be updated/amended in case the original intent would as you say, etc.

- Please avoid such implications like "IDHT or BRD would work for me", on the contrary, I am just professionally and detaild analyzed what you have told me but I have found some inconsistencies, hence my answer to you and discussion about this.

- Consequently, you should demonstrate to me if you claim the correct form for would be alternate/optional, since this I could not read out from the guidelines and policies. Thank You.(KIENGIR (talk) 07:07, 11 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

@Mathglot:,

please give a feedback, thank you.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:13, 13 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

This is isn't worth the words we've spent already, and I really thought you'd be aware of first-letter capitalization issues at Wikipedia, which are no different for Templates, than they are for articles, but I'll try one more time. All alphabetic filenames begin with an upper case character in Wikipedia. Even when an article looks like it begins with a lower case letter (e.g., eBay) the filename *still* begins with uppercase (look at the url in your browser address bar: it's EBay). But even though articles are case-sensitive (Shape is not the same as SHAPE), the first letter is not case-sensitive, and I'm sure you know this, at least subconsciously, if not as a specific rule. As a newbie, I'm sure I unnecessarily piped wikilinks because I wanted it to be lower case in the middle of a sentence, something like:

• ...and became captain of the first [[Nuclear submarine|nuclear submarine]].

which is of course completely pointless, as you can just say [[nuclear submarine]] and get the exact same result. We all learned that, probably fairly early on in our wiki-career.

It's exactly the same with templates. Whether you type {{short description}} or {{Short description}} makes absolutely no difference, and goes to the same place. Changing from one to the other (in either direction) is pointless, as the Arbcom pointed out, in a rather strongly-worded statement in 2006.

As far as your comment, "since this I could not read out from the guidelines and policies", I took this to mean you wanted a link or quotation to something specific, that describes what I just spelled out. I know it's mentioned numerous times in many places, but frankly, I don't keep track of where they all are. But I did find this one for you, and I hope it is sufficient:

"To transclude a template into an article or page, type {{Template name}} in the wikitext at the place where the template is to appear. The first letter may be indifferently lower- or upper-case."

I really hope this answers your question, because I've said all I'm going to say on this topic, and am going to bow out now. It could be that I'm not being clear, and I'm sorry if that's the case; maybe someone else can explain it better. You could also try posing the question at the WP:Tea house, or at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). Hope this helps, Mathglot (talk) 21:59, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mathglot:,

I am experienced enough not to need make inquries at the Teahouse, and certainly there was no problem understanding you or what you wish to say, I just really precisely wanted to investigate the issue - may be you'd consider far more detailed than necessary - don't take this as negative, I am a highly precise, consistent type. All of this you said has been as well clear, now you've shown me a template help description which describes these name may be styled as well with or without capitals, which I already knew subconsciously, however thank you the time and effort!

I still not see reinforced explicity that "Short description" would be treated as an alternate/optional style, rather implicity, but not per definiton

So I go forward, and kindly ask @Vanjagenije: to settle this once and for all;

Vanja, if you don't have time to read it through, I summarize shortly my question (arguments of both of us you may see above):

- In case I change at any article "short description" -> "Short description" solely as a bold edit (sometimes after a new insertion by another user to the article), does it mean I would violate anything? (i.e. MOS:VAR, though the exact template description does not qualify the one I change to as alternate/optional, does not even refer to any different option, and one bold edit is not edit warring...I see what Mathglot is telling and by general approach the things he say may be concluded as he presents, but given my argumentation is not eplicitly restrictive on what I would do...please clarify in a consistent, uneqivocal matter and I will follow that - I can understand as well if a guideline/rule is written in a manner what exactly was intended, though the wordage may be not exactly synchronized everywhere and may be loopholes of consistency, etc. Thank you for your time.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:32, 14 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Why do you need me to interpret MOS:VAR for you? It's pretty clear. In Wikipedia, we follow the spirit of the guideline, not word-for-word text (see WP:GAME). The MOS:VAR guideline is clear that you shouldn't make unilateral changes that do not make the article better. Mathglot tried to explain that to you patiently, yet you immediately resorted to ad hominem attacks, thus also violating the WP:AGF policy. I notice that you are trying to WP:wikilawyer by citing the WP:SHORTDES guideline (If you need to do a manual fix, please use the correct template name...). Can you, please, explain me, what was that fix that was needed to be made here? I don't see any fix. Vanjagenije (talk) 23:29, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanjagenije:,

I asked your assistance as an admin, and it was worthy, thank you for that! I hope you see my intent was not Game/wikilawyering, but now you pinpointed that I should follow the spirit of this guideline (however sometimes is useful to clarify things, which may be not so evident). I don't see how would I attack anyhow Mathglot (an editor which I utterly respect indeed), I never assumed he would not be lead by good faith, I wanted to understand him, I just expressed I considered a bit harsh his reaction at the beginning. Regarding your question, I considered fixing exactly what I did. However, I understood, won't do in the future unless I don't improve the article in an other way - as Mathglot noted - which I interpret my edit cannot be solely a capitalization of the template. Please reinforce me if this one I interpreted correctly, I wish to follow rules and I asked your assistance because you are an admin who very precisely see through rules and guidelines, which made me learn much as well in the past. Thank you.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:16, 15 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

KIENGIR, Minor point on a different topic, for future reference:

I never assumed he would...

Try this: "I never assumed {{they|Mathglot}} would..." ⇨ ⇨ "I never assumed they would..."

But notice the difference: "I see that {{they|Vanjagenije}} said..." ⇨ ⇨ "I see that he said..."

Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 00:57, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it may be useful some unknown cases. Thank You!(KIENGIR (talk) 02:01, 15 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

A question

Would you please be so kind to explain to me this edit [32] Why was one out of two theories chosen to be in Wiki voice? cheers, Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 21:21, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Sadko:,

sure, I think the exact details extracted carefully from the sources should not be deleted, and this issue should not be elevated to a Serbian-Albanian/Balkan conflict of heritage or origin. I will a bit rephrase per your request.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:32, 11 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Southern Europe

Hi KIENGIR! Belated Happy New Year, and how's it going? FYI – The same guy has a history of POV pushing, with multiple blocks, check 81.67.166.149 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) and 193.252.173.168 (talk · contribs · WHOIS). I won't be surprised if all these are socks of an indef'ed registered editor. It might be Julio189red (talk · contribs) who left a trail of disruption last year in Ligures (where @193.252.173.168 also shows up), but I still need to get some conclusive diffs. –Austronesier (talk) 15:27, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Austronesier:,

Hi, I wish you a Happy New Year too! Well, hope there will be less issues, though it seems not really :/. And you?

On the subject, please forward your evidence here ([33]). Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 15:37, 12 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Well, according to Leibnitz, we live in the best of all possible worlds, but then, lack of positive possibilies has always been the fate of individuals that inhabit the world, so why should the world itself fare better. I see it rather :/-ish from my side too.

I will add the solid evidence to El_C's talk page. And later also diff's once I have hard evidence for socking. –Austronesier (talk) 16:07, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They've been here for quite some time with the same old song... And here's their POV[34] fully spelled out. @TU-nor: this might be interesting for you as well. –Austronesier (talk) 21:57, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello users, I wanted to tell you that at no time did I want to offend you or come into conflict with you. However I would just like to understand why you want to erase official maps and integrate a fake map in the Southern Europe page. If you erase without putting this subjective card it will not pose any problem. I just want to participate in spreading the truth without offending anyone. And I think discussing and explaining the reason for deletion helps to avoid conflicts of users who have no interest. That's all I ask. You have to understand the work of others, even those you don't know.--81.67.153.44 (talk) 16:21, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You've been explained by many of us, and you refuse to listen.(KIENGIR (talk) 16:26, 12 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

If certain sentences bother you and you erase the content and at the same time official cards. I am simply noticing that you are erasing official cards when it is a bit of text that is causing the problem. This is why erasing everything without explanation and, in addition, adding a fake card is incomprehensible for a user who does not know you. You have to understand that by your actions you are blocking people who have no interest in harming the internet but who resist thinking that it is you who are the problem. I think it is important to say exactly what is wrong when there is a problem because my goal is not to force through but to share my knowledge on wikipedia.--81.67.153.44 (talk) 16:31, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Stop messaging here, the article's talk page is the appropriate place, I just follow policies, which you don't.(KIENGIR (talk) 16:33, 12 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Finally, I could overcome my lazy me:[35]. Enough is engough. –Austronesier (talk) 21:07, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Austronesier:,

Oh, never mind, time is really a shortage over will, I am quite eager of the result, thank you (and I am happy you borrowed my slogan "enough is enough" :-) ).(KIENGIR (talk) 21:36, 24 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

IA

Very well; you paid attention. Regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 17:32, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proper (or, unproper) Croatia?

Hello Kiengir, I hope you had a nice hollydays, and I wish you all the best for you and your loved ones. Regarding wiki content, I have an issue. Croats got to push trough a controversial term Croatia proper. The term is just a Croatian nationalistic term trough which they suggest there were "other" Croatia´s independent of Hungary and with their own sttatehood, when in fact we lack evidence of any of such entities from 10c. to 1918. They have a tremendous will to forcefully take Slavonia and Dalmatia as their own and present them as the "other" Croatia´s, when there is no evidence of such. I hope you understand my opposition towards making fairytales such as those real history. FkpCascais (talk) 23:23, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @FkpCascais:,

well I would say not really so good, however maybe such may conclude majority of the people in the world recently, at least I hope you had better than me, I wish as well all best for you and your loved ones and a better year!

Regarding the content issue, you probably know my opinion/stance about these, since both of us encountered in such discussions in the past, especially about this Croatia proper I think you should not be concerned, since it refers to a historical region, which is per definition outside of such issues you mention, so linking it won't take sides in that (indeed you perfectly know I share you regarding the principle about fairy tales vs real history). Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 13:25, 14 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I can´t say at all that I had better hollydays lol. It was the worst hollydays ever! Me and my family did nothing. Drinks ended by late afternoon, and everything was closed so there was no way to buy nothing. Regarding chldren, they were evidently sad. They appreciated their presents, but found out and spread ammong them how they suspect there is no Santa. A friend of mine had the idea of telling them that Santa got Covid, which only made things worst.

Regarding editing content, I have been quite fed up with the way events have been going specially in Croatia. Local historians have been dedicated to revisionism in full swing, and history schoolbooks slowly, but progressivelly, add more and more of their reinterpratations. Reading the articles from their own Wikipedia seems like entering in a twilight zone. Same occurs with majority of allegedly "historical documentaries" one can see on different platforms. Feels like entering into parallel universe where seems more as if Hungary became part of Croatia. Often Croatia is presented as independent kingdom which elected, on their own will, to recognise Hungarian suvereignity, and could denounce it at any moment (clearly not the case). My issue with the term Croatia (proper) has to do with the fact that I noteced how in their documentaries, the term was introduced to suggest how there were other Croatia´s existing beside that one. I even saw cases going as far as saying that Croatia (proper) was independent (despite being part of Hungary) while the other Croatia´s were occupied, like Dalmatia by Venice, Bosnia and Herzegovina by Ottomans or Red Croatia (Montenegro) by... Montenegrins (???) or Ottomans, who knows. Many are made to believe that Croatia never lost independence at all, as in second paragraph of History of Croatia. Even 1867 was just some bad dream. Triune Kingdom continues being pushed into the articles despite never having existed. Military Frontier is treated as their territory ignoring the other sections. Recently, I found in a book a sentence that shocked me and made me see how much of a Croatian-centered our articles are. The book says that the creation of the Military Frontier made Austria take an entire portion of territory from Hungary. The overwelming focus on Croatia makes our articles continuously repeat the relation of MF and Croatia with usually some mention, if any, made much later, often in a form of how the region changed from Transleithania to Cisleithania. This for an average reader is not even nearly clear as "MF was taken from Hungary", so, I hope not, but am affraid this little things indicate that a terrain is being prepared to challenge the level of authority Hungary had over Croatia. Anyway, we´ll see how iit will all go from here, best regards! FkpCascais (talk) 23:06, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@FkpCascais:,

believe me, you had better holidays then me, but let's look forward the next year!

I can't say anything about recent Croatian internal happenings, since I don't know about them. The multilateral views of the relation are presented in the relevant article, however we regard generally as a personal union, but not integral part of Hungary, neither part of Hungary proper, but part of the Lands of the Hungarian Crown. After 1867, we already investigated in the Tesla discussion about the controversy of Dalmatia, the Triune Kingdom issue have been already balanced after the ominous editor and his sock have been banned (I think it was awesome poor Havsjö had to do over twenty reverts and as an epic ending he reported himself, but was left free as "self-reporting is always refreshing" :D). The MF issues has always been reemerging in the Tesla discussions, it's really a complex issue, though recently I don't see mass "updates" in Croatia related articles. I wish both of us a less stressful year, and less mess in WP, would be good a longer period of happy editing, instead of facing POV-pushers and trolls, which seems sometimes never seem to be depleted :/ . Best Regards!(KIENGIR (talk) 11:22, 15 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I apologise KIENGIR, I feel embaraced about the way I talked, I really hope nothing very bad happened and that you and all your loved ones are all fine. We know eachother as editors for so long and I appreciate you so much, please feel free to ping me anytime. FkpCascais (talk) 20:47, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@FkpCascais:, oh, you don't need to apologize, you did nothing wrong, I would just say if you had more family members around with children healthy, it's already something good. The appreciation is mutual, I recall when you probably said a marriage issue was harsh in your life...maybe we should talk about girls :) (KIENGIR (talk) 21:00, 17 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I can´t remember at all what did I said and when, I guess it must have been some outburst of the kind "one has already so much problems in life, Wikipedia should not be another one, but rather a pleasent hobbie one could find some peace." Talking of which, I allways felt sorry that the proportion of male editors is so bigger. I remember a lot of discussions were made at some point over how to attract more female editors, but all proposals were major fails. I witnessed first-hand when I tried to convince my loved one to become an editor, and, after only 5 minutes, it became so obvious she was making the effort just to please me. I didn´t insisted anymore, and she seemed pleased to see there were very few woman here and no flirting or anything of that kind was going on here, so she feeled safe and free to go and do her own stuff she likes. I can´t get it what is with woman and Wikipedia? It´s not like if we miss woman´s topics, but for some reason they don´t feel the apeal to edit. I also think that woman, as brain beings, would be great for dispute resolutions. FkpCascais (talk) 19:56, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@FkpCascais:, well, as I recall I noticed more woman editors, nevertheless they are not the majority, but at first glance you would not even assume they are woman, just after checking their userpage, e.g. I just recall imeediately three-four admins being women, so they appear at least more numerous vs. ordinary editors (oh well, I know it's just my personal encounter statistics :) )(KIENGIR (talk) 20:40, 21 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for January 16

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Siege of Novi Zrin (1664), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Croatian.

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Edit warring

Your recent editing history at Spanish Empire shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. - Donald Albury 00:10, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Donald Albury:,

this warning was not necessary, if you check the edit history, I was just restoring the status quo ante version for the unconsensused parts, already the talk page discussed about this, and others were as well undoing vandalism before, as indicated, and the IP totally disregarded this. Of course I will reinforce it in the talk, but usually this comes after the second revert, but I did not have time to care the issue yet.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:19, 20 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

The Wikipedia definition of vandalism is pretty narrow. You and the IP had reverted each other 3 times today in what can be interpreted as a content dispute. Once a consensus is established on the talk page, it can be enforced. - Donald Albury 01:14, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Donald Albury:,

no, the IP reverted 3 times, I just two times, and stopped (my other revert explained above was a day before, after a massive edit warring of other parties). Btw. I already reinforced the issue in the talk, if the the IP does not establish consensus, the page has to be restored, let's see if it will engage.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:24, 20 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Romani in Hungary

Just a quick message off the talk page: when you have deleted a statement you need to provide evidence of why you think it is biased, this needs to refer to the actual text. So, for example, if you feel a statement is not neutral you need to say something like "The edit says Jim Jones was much beloved, I do not feel this is a neutral statement. It should be changed or removed." or "As regards Jim Jones made a racist comment in 1963, the source does not specifically identify this comment as 'racist' so we must change the language or find a different source."

You can't simply blank several hundred words of sourced comment without providing detailed justifications. Please simply state on the talk page the things you object to, or state that you object to nothing, in the two paragraphs you deleted.

I really hope we can sort this out, but you really need to be more specific for this to happen. Boynamedsue (talk) 15:18, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Boynamedsue:,.

I asked you not to conduct parallell discussions, and please don't steal from editors precious editing time! Here you just again reiterated the same problem, that you still refuse to understand the point, meanwhile by mistake you think the issue is something else. I gave you justification for everything - even preliminary - and by not any means you may coin the situation by ignoring/misinterpreting the issue. I will now catch up on the article's talk, and again, carefully listen there. Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 15:52, 22 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I am writing to formally invite you to take our discussions on this topic to the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard. This requires you to agree to participate, or the discussion can not be taken there. Please reply on the relevant talk page within 14 days. Boynamedsue (talk) 07:43, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Replied.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:30, 23 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

It's only fair to advise you that the links of my offers to you to discuss the content you mass deleted were broken, this was my error. They are now fixed. I doubt it will change your position, and there is no need to answer unless it does. Boynamedsue (talk) 09:12, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The link changes you did still verify the content and validity of my reply, even reinforce it. I will always answer if it is needed, anyway this discussion is rendered by you.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:30, 25 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Greek Junta

Hello I saw some edit war about the Greek Junta. Some users put that as a example of fascist state, put it in that category etc. But I haven't seen enough of reliable sources and wide recognition to whole regime and state described as fascist. That is serious thing, declaring the whole country in that way and that need to be taken serious and measured totally neutral. Far right military dictatorship yes, that I saw as description, but fascist no as whole nop, at least not in neutral academic researches and publications. And not as wide accepted in academic community. So if you can to check.178.220.244.242 (talk) 01:38, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @178.220.244.242:,

that page is not on my watchlist and I am not an expert yet on that special era of Greece, but I assume probably you are right since similar phenomenon suffered as well other articles. My suggestion if this continues, after the second time you'd be reverted open a discussion in the article's talk a present your argumentation there. If you'd won't get along, involve Wikipedia:WikiProject Greece to the discussion. Kind Regards!(KIENGIR (talk) 01:58, 23 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you very much about your answer, and thank you for your time to answer me and sorry for me disturbing you. I posted on the talk page of that article and wrote about my concerns. For me labeling whole countries, governments, political parties, movements etc as something need wide recognition in relevant sources, otherwise it does not work, so that made me concerned about. 178.220.244.242 (talk) 02:21, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@178.220.244.242:,

you did the right thing! Take care, happy I could help you somehow!(KIENGIR (talk) 02:52, 23 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I think it would be better to have Wikipedia:WikiProject Greece involved, maybe they are in a better place to solve this dispute. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.122.83.241 (talk) 07:41, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@178.220.244.242:,

I think for now you should wait, if somebody still continue, or would anybody join the discussion, but as you feel. Cheers!.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:00, 23 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Big lie

[36] I already read the talk page and responded. How about you read it please. Einsof (talk) 17:11, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I did.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:16, 26 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

History of Croatia

Hello KIENGIR,

I added Ottoman period in Croatia between 1492 and 1791 alongside Croatia in the Habsburg Monarchy (1527–1918). However, you reverted it, as if Ottoman rule in Croatia wasn't happen. This move was wrong. Before Ottomans entering Croatia, she was divided between Republic of Venice, Kingdom of Hungary, Kingdom of Naples (for Palagruža) and Archyduchy of Austria (for inland part of Istria). Also, she was divided between 5 states during 1492-1527 period. When, Austria inherited Hungarian part of her, she was divided between Austria, Ottoman Empire, Venice and Kingdom of Naples. This division lasted until 1791, Austrians taking last Ottoman strongholds in Croatia after Treaty of Sistova. Austria finally completed conquest of her after taking Palagruža from Italy in 1873.

Note: If you want, I can give reliable sources about Ottoman period in Croatia in langauges of Turkish, Croatian and Hungarian. Yours sincerely,Cemsentin1 (talk) 23:06, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Cemsentin1:,

you misunderstood something, since the timelines are successive and clear cut, the time period includes this, and not full of Croatia has been necessarily conquered all the time (any way present-day status quo should not be reflected back in time).(KIENGIR (talk) 23:21, 26 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Jobbik page issue

Hi @KIENGIR,

You want to discuss, let's discuss. Just for clarification, I'm totally a newcomer here. I've just looked up at the editing history of the Jobbik's Wikipedia page and according to it you broke the 3-revert rule before I did the same. I don't like edit warring, but why did you need to revert to a version of the page that was partially true. Yes, there was a time when Jobbik was described as a far-right party, I would never bet against this fact, but since 2016 the party's communication and political view have been changed by a lot, which culminated into a new manifesto, which describes themselves as a center-right party. As of right now there a 2 political parties in Hungary, that are way more far-right, then Jobbik is. Those are: the Our Homeland Movement (which founded as a result of the seperation of the far-right from Jobbik) and the current rulling party Fidesz (which became far-right more gradually since 2015). I don't know what is your problem with these facts, but I can tell you right now, that those edits were made in good faith and not the opposite.

Best regards,Andor127 (talk) 16:06, 30 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Andor127:,

no, I did not brake 3RR. Per policy and earlier discussion. The party has been also described as far-right, and the infobox presents how to party is described, not necessarily how they position themselves. I disagree about Fidesz, it has never been far-right, for the Our Homeland Movement it is true. Edits are not judged by good faith (neither the lack of it), which is a principle that is anyway essential.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:41, 30 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR:,

Maybe I was a little bit harsh with Fidesz, because they are more a right-wing party, but seriously your argument is that Jobbik is far-right, because the infobox describes it as being one. With all do respect, let tell you right now, I think that's a weak argument. I'm gonna make a counter argument. Have you seen the ideology section in the infobox? If you do, then you could clearly see that those ideologies that could definately describe Jobbik as a far-right party are all listed after the following subtitle: Historical (now minorities). Which means that there is a minority of people describe themselves as far-right. So given that, do you still think, that because of that minority you can describe this or any (if there is a similar situation mostly on the right-wing) political party far-right? Because quite frankly, I don't think so. Just because there is a far-right minority in the party, doesn't mean that the majority is far-right, because they lean towards the center-right.

Best regards,Andor127 (talk) 20:02, 30 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Andor127:,

I did not argue like as you said. I said, the policital position in the infobox summarize what sources say, shall we like or not (regardless of my personal opinion, here in WP things are a bit different). Many parties have as well ideologies that are not far-right per se, even given the fact in English far-right does not necessarily coincide what we would consider domestically about it. Moreover the political position is a range, and you just acknowledged as well there are members who touch this range.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:41, 30 January 2021 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR:,

Yes, it's one thing that political position is a range, but it's quite another thing if a party's current political position (which could become the main one) is not listed in the infobox, even if most of the main sources are in Hungarian. I've seen a ton of Wikipedias in different languages with this same article and some of them for example the Spanish Wikipedia does contain the current position of Jobbik which is center-right to right-wing, and the one that the English version has (which is of course right-wing to far-right) is presented as a historical political position, which means that the party's political position that is listed on this Wikipedia is not true anymore. Maybe it should be labelled as a historical one and not a current one. You said that the term far-right in English is not necessarily coincide with the one that we know domestically. When I said that Jobbik is not a far-right party anymore, I said it not just domestically, but rather universally, because even if someone looks up at the pages infobox, you could see that their current ideologies can be placed between center-right to right-wing. It should be a no-brainer. BTW do you remember what I said about Fidesz of being far-right? Well, I would say they are a right-wing to far-right party as according to their Wikipedia page and there is a big reason for that: populism and authoritarianism.

Best regards,Andor127 (talk) 12:02, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The current political position is dscribed in the lead. Other WP's are not decisive in this matter. I doubt and you agreed the even softer non-deomestic interpretation the party contain such factions. See Fidesz, which has nothing to with far-right (populism does not qualify that, authoritarianism is better a dubious accusation), but sources don't care much, shall I like or not or considered to be true (especially in a politically heated environment when all parties, factions, movements, political sides blaming each other with various epiphets to gain some result against the opponent, the news, media may one-one sold out to each sides. WP by policy tend to the sources, of we may struggle in the scope of this, an that are already present in the respective pages.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:47, 1 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for February 3

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Géza Grünwald, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Hungarian.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:16, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

aspersions

on the closing of the Big Lie DRN topic, you took another swipe at me by characterizing my behavior as “quite odd.” There is nothing odd about my behavior. You appear to be personalizing a content dispute about a topic in which you appear to have a strong POV. I again ask you to pause and reconsider your approach. Thank you. soibangla (talk) 20:02, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Soibangla:,

please avoid mischarechterizing the issue, again, there is nothing connected with any aspersions/personalizing, indeed I prefectly know these issues per policy, (anyaway I have been a recurrent victim of those). I have to reject your accusation of POV, on the contrary, the opposite is true, struggle for NPOV, evidence is there. Moreover, do you think it is a normal procedure in which you don't actively participate something you opened and even one participant among those who invited did not took part? Two editors, including me coped with your request, without being even formally invited. Don't worry, I am experienced enough to only enter in an issue, in which everything is thorougly considered, otherwise I would not enter in it. Please have these in mind, Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 23:26, 3 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Official State Names

Hey,

Just figured I should explain that all I've been doing on the "Sovereign States in decades" pages is simply correcting official state names so they are consistent throughout wikipedia, that's all. (ex: Often Iceland is listed as "Republic of Iceland", when its official name as stated on its wikipedia page is simply "Iceland".) I don't mean to inflame an edit war or anything. Cheers :)

You remove as well instances, discuss at talk better.(KIENGIR (talk) 03:05, 5 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I need your expertise on correct wording of sources

I'll try to make it very simple. I saw you posting on Uyghur article before and you seem to be a experienced user who sorted out the dispute with ease. The problem I have is basically the source and wording on a article between me and a user. I currently have a problem with Genetic section of Uyghurs [1] , which to lead to a long wall discussion in the Uyghur talk page [2]. I want you to tell me who correct and who is wrong because our dispute have lasted for weeks and getting nowhere.

The roots of the problem is here

I edited the genetic section by using the 2009 Li's paper " Genetic Landscape of Eurasia and “Admixture” in Uyghurs " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2790568/

And this is what it says

"STRUCTURE cannot distinguish recent admixture from a cline of other origin, and these analyses cannot prove admixture in the Uyghurs; however, historical records indicate that the present Uyghurs were formed by admixture between Tocharians from the west and Orkhon Uyghurs (Wugusi-Huihu, according to present Chinese pronunciation) from the east in the 8th century CE.14 The Uyghur Empire was originally located in Mongolia and conquered the Tocharian tribes in Xinjiang. Tocharians such as Kroran have been shown by archaeological findings to appear phenotypically similar to northern Europeans,15 whereas the Orkhon Uyghur people were clearly Mongolians. The two groups of people subsequently mixed in Xinjiang to become one population, the present Uyghurs. We do not know the genetic constitution of the Tocharians, but if they were similar to western Siberians, such as the Khanty, admixture would already be biased toward similarity with East Asian populations. "

I originally added the source with quotation [3], that was later removed by the user Hzn [4]

Weeks later I tried another attempt in editing it Here is how I later edited it.

According to the paper by Li et al. Historical records indicates Uyghurs were formed through admixture between the conquered Tocharian tribes in Xinjiang and the invading Orkhon Uyghur people from Mongolia, the two population eventually mixed and became one population that formed present Uyghurs. Archaeological findings shows Tocharians such as Kroran phenotypically similar to northern Europeans while the Orkhon Uyghur people were clearly Mongolians. Overall, genetic study shows western East Asians are more closely related to Uyghurs than to eastern East Asians, but it is unsure what constituted the exact original genetics of the Tocharians. The study also indicates that the analysis cannot distinguish the original ancient component of Tocharians originated from the West from the more recent Orkhon Uyghurs (Wugusi-Huihu) of the East. It was speculated they were similar to western Siberians, such as the Khanty, admixture would already be biased toward similarity with East Asian populations.

But the user Hzn decided to reword the entire paragraph like this [5]. I mean we dicussed on talk page, I asked him to refute the study made by Li, but he doesn't provide any sources and insist on rewording the genetic study of Li how he likes it. For several weeks there were no replies until now but still he doesn't show me any source to refute Li's 2009 study but just kept rewording the source.

"A different study by Li et al. (2009) used a larger sample of individuals from a wider area and found a higher East Asian component of about 70%, with much more similarity to "Western East" Eurasians than East Asian populations, while the European/West Asian component was about 30%. The paper by Li et al. noted that historical records suggest that Uyghurs may be formed through admixture between the Tocharian tribes in Xinjiang and the Orkhon Uyghur people from Mongolia, but the study cannot distinguish the original ancient component of the Tocharians. It speculated that the Tocharians may be genetically similar to western Siberians, such as the Khanty people, and admixture would already be biased toward the East Asian populations.[113] "

The problem here is Hzn basically just removed the entire archeological information of Tocharians, or information of Tocharians being conquered by Xinjiang ( when such information is also provided in full history in wikipedia article of the Uyghur Qocho kingdom, which shows they conquered territories of Xinjiang and assimilated the Tocharians). Also his interpretation of Khanty people seems a bit off aswell. Can you tell us who's correct and who is wrong.Vamlos (talk) 02:55, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Vamlos:,

without entering to content issues, if the user removed something from the article that was present before the dispute without any valid reason, you can restore it per policy. If you came up with a new addition, the other user may contest it. In case in the talk page you cannot build consensus, you may try the appropriate dispute resolution processes. In case you think the user acts agains any policy, even afterwards you explained what the user would be doing wrong, you may report the user the in the relevant noticeboard based on the type of activity. Keep in mind that in genetic questions everything should comply with WP:MEDRS. Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 03:24, 5 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Invitation to DRN

Hi. As per our previous discussions, I have started a DRN mediation regarding Romani people in Hungary. You are under no obligation to participate and the mediation is non-binding.

Boynamedsue (talk) 10:30, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution.

Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!

Boynamedsue (talk) 10:34, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Baltic Finnic peoples

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

--Boynamedsue (talk) 21:38, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Boynamedsue:,

please avoid posting to my talkpage unnecessary templates and warnings, as you did the same again like last time, this not edit warring, by the frame and time, otherwise you should have sent a warning to yourself as well (I won't explain it again). Just follow our policies, and remain in the talk page.(KIENGIR (talk) 02:27, 7 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Alternative meaning of Magyar

Please revert (Alternative meaning of Magyar added.) You removed it as being fringe; however, the source is a peer reviewed article. Interestingly you left speculation about Magyar originating as a Hunnic word. If you are going to present Magyar as possibly originating in other languages then you should include all valid theories. You also have the Old Hungarian for of Magyar as "mogyër" with no source cited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:7CC3:A100:95C4:84C6:E1E6:7049 (talk) 05:45, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@2001:569:7CC3:A100:95C4:84C6:E1E6:7049 and 2001:569:7CC3:A100:95C4:84C6:E1E6:7049:,

please open in the talk page section of one of the articles and explain your concerns there, so more users may review the material you wish to add. Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 06:15, 8 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Why Szekelys are not Hungarians by DNA studies

Findings of the Hungarian experts: ‘Today’s Hungarian genes’, by B. Csányi, E. Bogácsi-Szabó, Gy. Tömöry, Á. Czibula, K. Priskin, A. Csősz, B. Mende, P. Langó, K. Csete, A. Zsolnai, E. K. Conant, C. S. Downes, and I. Raskó. "Y-Chromosome Analysis of Ancient Hungarian and Two Modern Hungarian-Speaking Populations from the Carpathian Basin.": "The Hungarian population belongs linguistically to the Finno-Ugric branch of the Uralic family. The Tat C allele is an interesting marker in the Finno-Ugric context, distributed in all the Finno-Ugric-speaking populations, except for Hungarians. This question arises whether the ancestral Hungarians, who settled in the Carpathian Basin, harbored this polymorphism or not. 100 men from modern Hungary, 97 Szekely (a Hungarian-speaking population from Transylvania), and 4 archaeologically Hungarian bone samples from the 10th century were studied for this polymorphism. Among the modern individuals, only one Szekely carries the Tat C allele, whereas out of the four skeletal remains, two possess the allele. The latter finding, even allowing for the low sample number, appears to indicate a Siberian lineage of the invading Hungarians, which later has largely disappeared. The two modern Hungarian-speaking populations, based on 22 Y-chromosomal binary markers, share similar components described for other Europeans, except for the presence of the haplogroup P*(xM173) in Szekely samples, which may reflect a Central Asian connection, and high frequency of haplogroup J in both Szekelys and Hungarians. MDS analysis based on haplogroup frequency values, confirms that modern Hungarian and Szekely populations are genetically closely related, and similar to populations from Central Europe and the Balkans." Then: "The R1a1-M17 frequency in Hungarians (30%) and Szekelys (18.6%) is comparable to that in their neighbours (e.g. Czechs and Slovaks, mainland Croatians, Bosnians, Romanians, Serbians) and some other Uralic-speaking populations (e.g. Estonian, Komis, Mordvin)... Similar frequencies of R1b as in the Hungarian speakers are found in some Slavic populations (mainland Croatians, Slovenians, Poles, Bulgarians); and in some Uralic-speakers (Komis, Khanties, Mordvin) as well as in Romanian and Turkish populations... The presence of central-Asian haplogroup P*(xM173) in Szekelys is unusual for a European population, since it is almost absent in continental Europe... and presumably reflects some Asian contribution, before or after reaching Transylvania. Hg I-M170 is the only Y-chromosome haplogroup that is confined almost exclusively to the European continent... Haplogroup I was detected with almost equal frequency in the two modern populations: 24% in Hungarians and 21.7% in Szekelys. However, two of its major subclades- I1a-M253 and I1b*(xM26) - show an opposite occurrence in the two ethnic groups, 8% and 13%, respectively, in Hungarians, and 16.5% and 5.2% in Szekelys. These are within the range of normal central and eastern European values... The elevated frequency of Hg I1a together with higher frequency of R1b-M269 in Szekelypopulation might be the consequence, at least in part, of the genetic impact of people of German origin, who settled in Transylvania from the 12th century onwards (Transylvanian Saxons)... In the present study haplogroup J was unexpectedly common in the Hungarian-speaking populations (Hungarians: 16%, Szekelys: 21.6%). Haplogroup J... is considered to have originated in the Middle East... The J1-M267 Y-chromosomal lineage is notably frequent in Szekelys (10.3%; a value far above the range for other central and eastern European populations..., while its frequency in Hungarians (3.0%) is unremarkable. ... Among these J2-M172 subclades, J2e1-M102 is more frequent in Szekelys (7.2%) than in Hungarians (4.0%), while the undifferentiated J2-M172* Y chromosomes are slightly more common in Hungarian population (8% vs. 3.1%). Both J2f*-M67 and J2f1-M92 lineages were detected in our study in one single individual, in each population. ... Haplogroup E3b-M35 occurs at 10% frequency in Hungarians and 9.2% in Szekelys with E3b1-M78 chromosomes accounting for almost all representatives (∼90%). Hg E is mainly African, but its clade E3b-M35 has also been observed in Europe... Both E3b-M35 and its derivative (E3b1-M78) probably originated in eastern Africa..."Magysze (talk) 15:12, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Magysze:,

please only use the relevant article's talk page.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:17, 9 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for February 11

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Brașov, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Principality of Transylvania.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:15, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Soviet offensive plans controversy

I only undid the edit because Mark Solonin is already listed 2 times in the support section and it was posted from a Blog. Also Hoffman is already mentioned from another source the main source about his book was haphazardly, copied and pasted from a Holocaust denial website The Institute for Historical Review http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v20/v20n6p59_Michaels.html Suvorov, Icebreaker, and the 1980s part was moved to the book page pre talk from that page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:KIENGIR/Talk:Icebreaker_(Suvorov)#Self-citations that is why I put the Background to the Soviet offensive plans controversy in place of it.Thelostone41 (talk) 14:41, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Thelostone41:,

that does not mean you should have fully reverted, since I've made other improvements. A discussion in an other page does not necessarily binding in this article.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:59, 13 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Germany–Poland relations

Hi, why are you deleting more accurate, precise and neutral information, as well as information that provides valuable context, especially without reasonable justification? There are several inaccuracies in your edits, for example:

1. All territories regained by Poland from Germany after 1918 were in the past part of Poland, not just some of them were part of historical polish states or Much of this territory had been part of Poland in earlier centuries as you claim in your edits.
2. Your phrasing that Germany was deprived of its territories in West Prussia, East Upper Silesia and Danzig ignores the fact that all of those territories were part of Poland in the past and that those territories were simply restored to Poland, as the country regained independence. It also ignores other territories regained by Poland from Germany, mainly the bulk of Greater Poland and Kuyavia. Therefore, a statement that the Treaty of Versailles restored large portions of the formerly Polish territories of Greater Poland, Kuyavia, Gdańsk Pomerania and East Upper Silesia from Germany to the reborn Polish state is way more precise and neutral, plus it provides context that these territories were in fact restored to Poland. It's no different from restoring other territories, which Poland lost to Russia or Austria. It's also no different from Georgia or Armenia regaining their old territories after declaring independence from Russia in 1918, or Greece and Bulgaria from Turkey, or Ireland from the UK, or Mongolia from China, or Vietnam from France, etc. It's that simple.
3. Why do you erase mentions of the Tehran and Potsdam Conferences, which provide more precise info and internal links for anyone who's further interested in the subject?
4. The mention that the pre-war eastern territories of Germany were previously lost by Poland in the Partitions of Poland or even earlier is crucial to the understanding of the complexity and depth of the subject. Omitting the fact that these lands were in fact part of Poland in the past may look like an attempt to appropriate the entire pre-1945 centuries-long history of those areas to solely Germany, which is inaccurate and misleading.
5. Prior to the Ostsiedlung, the territories in Central Europe east of Elbe and Saale rivers were inhabited by Slavic and Baltic people, including Poles (specifically in Polish territories), and that information provides important context, since the article is about relations between Poland and Germany. Are you aware of this?
6. Wording such as Polish and German nationalists fought over the right to the disputed land is unjustified, erroneous and misleading. There is no reason whatsoever to make such generalizations about the political views of all people who fought on either side. Especially instead of a neutral, simple and concise statement that the Polish Greater Poland uprising of 1918–19 and Silesian Uprisings against Germany broke out in the disputed regions. In addition, you even remove the names of the uprisings and purposely avoid the term uprising, which is the most commonly used term in regards to these events. Doing so, you also remove internal links to the articles about the uprisings, which is both disruptive and completely unreasonable.

Could you please respond, and could you stop making such confusing edits? No hard feelings. Hope you're having a great day. Marcin 303 (talk) 07:56, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcin 303:,

no, I am not doing such as you say.

- this is not such clear-cut as you try to show it, and they are not my edits necessary, but I restored the previous version - sorry, the situation is that before the even it was part of Germany, and we don't have to insist in eevry sentence what you do, since it is far from neutrality - these conferencies were negotiations about future plans, and the happenings were not necessary direct consequence of them - it's already mentioned that Much of this territory had been part of Poland in earlier centuries., etc. we don't have to repeat everything twice - yes, and much prior also Germanic tribes were spread there, it's irrelevant to 20th century happenings - no I did not remove anything on such cause, I just reset the previous version.

Sorry, you should conduct more neutral editing, and rather discuss them before and gain consensus for them.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:03, 14 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR: You completely ignored several points. Could you please answer each and every of the following questions separately:

1. Much of this territory had been part of Poland in earlier centuries is wrong and misleading, because all of those territories were in the past part of Poland, not just much. Do you disagree? Are you trying to suggest that some of the territories regained by Poland from Germany after restoring independence in 1918 were never part of Poland? This is clear-cut, just yes or no?
2. Why do you erase the mentions of the uprisings and instead insist on the usage of vague and confusing phrasing such as Polish and German nationalists fought over the right to the disputed land?
3. Why do you insist that all people who fought on either side during those uprisings had nationalist political views? Why make such generalizations? Such assumptions and generalizations are unjustified and pointless.
4. The total number of Germans that either fled or were expelled from Central and Eastern Europe is estimated at 12 to 15 million, with the West German government putting the total number at 14.6 million, so 16 million in regards to Poland alone is clearly incorrect. Do you disagree, and if so, why?
5. Fleeings and expulsions is a more chronologically correct description than expulsions and fleeings. How can anyone flee after being expelled? Do you agree?
6. You've erased the mention of war destruction of Poland despite the reference. Why?
7. Germanic tribes are indeed irrelevant to 20th century happenings, as well as to medieval happenings, but Slavs and Balts incl. Poles are clearly not irrelevant to medieval happenings, cause they inhabited Central Europe when Poland already existed and the Ostsiedlung started. Will you try to dismiss this argument?
8. Even if you don't consider those your edits, you still restored to the earlier version. This would suggest you agree more with those prior statements, in spite of several inaccuracies which I've pointed out. Do you still agree with the earlier statements after I have given the above arguments? If you do, what are your counterarguments? If you don't, could you please not restore the previous inaccuracies?

Marcin 303 (talk) 16:02, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcin 303:,

I will then answer your questions where you reposted, be patient.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:00, 14 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Question

What Hungarian state ruled Michael? You wanted to say Szekely state, maybe? Magysze (talk) 16:42, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you should duplicate your questions, unnecessary.(KIENGIR (talk) 16:47, 14 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I don't think Michael entitled himself as a ruler of 'all' over Hungarians from Buda as well. From that age. Magysze (talk) 16:53, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't wish to conduct parrallel discussions, will return to the article's talk.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:05, 14 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Edit war 3RR

Your recent editing history at Hungarian dialects shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hungarian_dialects&curid=39427010&action=history You should always better keep the official census data which is sourced rather then your belly estimations which of course are not sourced...Magysze (talk) 17:11, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Are you kidding? One revert is not edit war, and you are consistently trolling other articles and talk pages. Just stop at once!(KIENGIR (talk) 17:15, 14 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Are you kidding?? Census data is trolling for you??? Not to mention you started. Every aspect or Szekler identity which differentiate from Hungarian is then subjected to reverts or deletion from your side. You stop that first.. Magysze (talk) 17:16, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No, I did not start anything, you started to abuse many articles. I strongly suggest to avoid my talk page, I don't have time for provocateurs.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:22, 14 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

You don't even recognize Szekely moustache... perhaps you want to call it Hungarian mustache but it's Szekely one... Magysze (talk) 17:24, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nazi Germany

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Nazi Germany; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:19, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You are warring against three other editors. Please stop. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:20, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Beyond My Ken:,

Are you kidding? Edit warring you did, I restored the previous version, you should have remained in the talk page per policy. No, you are the only one who is repeatedly contesting, not three editors. Btw, if this is WP:BOOMERANG, you should have given this warning to yourself - if to me you did -, anyway the time and frame does not justify your warnings and actions (even both directions). Quite unfriendy from you, I have known you much better editor than this.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:25, 14 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Nope, you are entirely wrong. An edit was made, you reverted it, Dianna restored it, you reverted her, then I restored it, and then you reverted me. You have now reverted that change to the article three times, and you never started the required discussion until after my edit. You are edit warring, period.

I know that generally you do good work, and I don't want to report you for edit warring, but I will if you give me no choice. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:39, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Beyond My Ken:,

No, I am not. Diannna understood me as, we communicated, if she would not, would revert again. Your restoration was against status quo. I entered in the talk page after the second revert, which is a the usual recommended conduct (administrator approved), my third revert came after that (if it would come but not engaging to the talk, that would have been a problem). Per policy, if you say I am edit warring per period, then you did the same, the difference is I did it in a legitimate way to status quo, and be sure I am not afraid of threatening with reports, because I don't give reasons for that, and in that case you would be in danger. I recommend you again to revert yourself, as a friendly fellow editor.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:07, 14 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Pančevački Rit

Hello, why you remove category Palilula from article Pančevački Rit? Pančevački Rit is a small geographical area and Borča, Ovča and Krnjača (Palilula) are part of him. --MareBG (talk) 00:59, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@MareBG:,

Hi, Palilula is a much more littler geographical unit, which obviouly cannot contain a more bigger geographical area...like the parent-child category approach would have been turned upside down...or I may be wrong?(KIENGIR (talk) 07:30, 15 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Hello

I just wanted to drop you a note to let you know that you are banned from posting comments on my talk page, unless, of course, you are required to by Wikipedia policy. If you are required to post a notice on my talk page, please clearly indicate in the edit summary what policy you are doing so under. Any other posted comments will be deleted without being read.

Please note that this ban also applies to pinging me.

Also, if you email me to get around this ban, I will assume that you are agreeing in advance that the entire contents of the e-mail can be released to anyone I wish to.

Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:48, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I really don't understand you, I sent you a message in a good faith manner, an I even apologized to respond, so I disagree I would be highly impolite. Currently your tone is harsh, strained and very unfriendly ("will be deleted without being read" (!)), however I don't even understand fully, an editor may impose ban on it's talk page or to be pinged? (e.g. I could also tell any editor such based on my decision? So I could not be sure even here my answer/questions reach you...) I don't even know why you think I would wish you to send emails, however I only once posted anything to your talkpage, and even rarely pinged, and I don't even intend to do such. You are heavily overreacting the issue, I still think you'd need to be much more WP:COOL, especially we know each other as editors from a longer while.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:06, 15 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Beyond My Ken,

since you ignored my request to explain/clarify (at least I did not ignore your ask also now, and it is disappointing you do by several issues), I had to investigate it. WP:NOBAN should be this policy, this this does not say you may "ban" anyone, just "ask", and "...such requests should, within reason, be respected". Pinging is not even mentioned in this policy.

Thus I have to evaluate your request as overly exaggerated (once in my life posted on your talk, and even politely apologized that was about a retracted comment, but I felt important to communicate with you), and extremely harsh by tone and manner, not in line with WP:AGF (considering you made several entries to my talk, I never even considered on insisted such in an opposite direction). Hence your reasons I do not find sufficient, despite I will respect your ask (however regarding pinging I would like to see a policy, unless I may have to ignore that, especially if you so many times try to explain policies which I know and follow, but this time I've got no response when it would be really important).(KIENGIR (talk) 12:58, 17 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Nazi Germany article

You can edit the lead of the Nazi Germany article. "The nazi political philosophy looked down on the fascist ideology since the very beginnings, thinking that fascism is inferior in every aspect with a comparison with their national socialist ideas."

Title The Origins of Totalitarianism Volume 244. / Harvest book Author Hannah Arendt Edition reprint Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 1973 ISBN 0547543158, 9780547543154

PAGE: 309

Link: [37]

@Creator Edition:,

I should not make edits about this until the talk page discussion is ongoing, however it is good you provided some material on the subject (btw. the yt link did not work for me, but indeed, the best are reliable sources). However, it's too concerning some people try to judge things by superficial emotion, instead of the professional approach. Let's hope others will understand, but who knows...(KIENGIR (talk) 10:19, 15 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Sorry, Here is the correct Youtube link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdY_IMZH2Ko

--Creator Edition (talk) 21:59, 15 February 2021 (UTC) Do not forget, this video is a heavy stuff, it uses more references than the disputed article ifself.--Creator Edition (talk) 15:41, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Feb 2021

I think you may need to read wp:tenditious and wp:dropthestick.Slatersteven (talk) 16:52, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Slatersteven:,

Please be sure I know our policies, if you read all- and related - discussions, especially I was the one who totally followed and referred them appropriately. The first policy you cited is out of question, I did not do any disruptive editing, this talk page section was opened by me, and the talk is is the place for consensus- and contructive discussions. Just because you e.g. disagree at ones opinion, it does not mean you should with alternate methods try to eliminate your debate partner, this is against wikietiquette, even would be unfair. The second policy you cited is valid for such cases, when an issue have been already closed and not any new arguments arose, and someone still continues (this is not the case here, and I even highlighted the weak/erroneus points of the argumentations of others).

On the contraty, I openly say I welcome any of your comments in the talk page, with respect.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:01, 15 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Former Countries of Afghanistan

Hello KIENGIR, I have noticed you removing said category from some countries and I can understand why you would remove it from Sasanian Empire but I believe you misinterpret the purpose of the category as it is to hold all countries that the Modern Islamic Republic of Afghanistan sits on meaning tht the other three would still fall under that category. Bvcitizen (talk) 23:15, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Bvcitizen:,

Hello, the Sasanian Empire was a Persian Empire, it was not any means connected to modern Afghanistan, neither to the Afghan statehood and was NOT a country of Aughanistan by any means. The name of category is failed, even the purpose, and even what is considered rename to (in modern-day Aghanistan did not exist former countries, anachronism). Moreover still other articles are erroenously in the category, like Maurya Empire, Sikh Empire, Safavid Iran and Hindu Shahi.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:24, 15 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I understand where you’re at, but I don’t believe the category has failed. Even if some aren’t considered a part of the evolution of Afghanistan they still lay beneath Afghanistan making them Afghan States. Bvcitizen (talk) 23:29, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Bvcitizen:,

Nope, they not have been Afghan states, fringe POV.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:38, 15 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Now I do understand your reasoning for your belief that they are not Afghan States, but they are they’ve layed on Afghan territory. Bvcitizen (talk) 23:41, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Bvcitizen:,

this is what I am saying, laying on a present-day territory does not make them Afghan. Also the Roman Empire was not Hungarian state. Just stop this!(KIENGIR (talk) 23:43, 15 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

In your eyes they don’t and also I never said The Roman Empire was a Hungarian State, and you can remove the categories on what you feel like I’ll eventually add them back and now that I’ve said that I bid you farewell and good luck with editing as I’m done with this conversation. Bvcitizen (talk) 23:50, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Bvcitizen:,

I did not say you said it, I gave an example to demonstrate your erroneus assertion. Don't add them back without consensus.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:53, 15 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Help

Sir, could you please tell me why the Austro-Hugarian flag was removed for the Austria Hungary article. I read the talk page and it seems to have just been have abruptly stopped.

Hi @Kanto7:,

there have been a much more longer and wider discussion which have been already archived. Well we have seen many points, the current phase is a solid interpolation.(KIENGIR (talk) 09:27, 20 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

You're right; I mixed-up the two. Augh... I'm getting old... Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:13, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nikocado Avocado

Hey! This is a request for outside comments on an article I created which may be of interest to you, Nikocado Avocado. If you have any feedback or edits you could give the article, these would be greatly appreciated. --Bangalamania (talk) 11:59, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Bangalamania:,

Hi, thank you for your notification. I overviewed the article, it seems fine! Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 17:27, 25 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you! 😊 --Bangalamania (talk) 03:13, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for February 26

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Brașov, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Principality of Transylvania.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:19, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

version A/B/C

Given the difficulty the moderator is having with understanding your proposals despite having access to drafts, perhaps you should reflect on my comments on the way you communicate on talk pages. This is particularly important given the fact you were throwing around WP:COMPETENT when I didn't understand what you were trying to say. Maybe in future, you could approach the situation in a different way if you come up against a user who says they don't understand you. Boynamedsue (talk) 07:15, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Boynamedsue:,

here you must have again a misunderstading, the since moderator did not parse the mods, which has nothing to do with competence issues or understanding, but simply intentions and time.(KIENGIR (talk) 02:00, 27 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Ok, whatever you want to believe. Boynamedsue (talk) 08:20, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Boynamedsue:,

Sorry, it has nothing to do my belief, the moderator expressis verbis described that. Please try to adhere to the reality.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:35, 27 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Hungary–Ukraine relations

Hello! I published the Hungary–Ukraine relations article yesterday, and I have some questions about your recent edit. This is my first time doing significant work on any sort of international relations article, so I'm not super familiar with standards; specifically:

1. How would I go about including events that inherently paint one party in a negative light but are also necessary and relevant to the article? The 27,000 deaths of civilians in Carpatho-Ukraine are important to the context of Hungarian-Ukrainian relations at that time, the 2018 passport scandal can't really be understood without they key factor of Hungarian diplomats' instructions to conceal new passports, and the details of 2019 election interference/mentioning violation of Ukrainian law are necessary because otherwise the section doesn't really sound like a controversy at all and fails to convey the geopolitical implications of the situation. Even though they're inherently biased against Hungary, shouldn't these events still be included? Or if their nature should bar them from being mentioned, should events that paint a negative picture of Ukraine (like the 2017 language law) be removed from the page as well?

2. More of an article organization question - the context of the two nations' relationship between the establishment of relations in the 90s and the deterioration of relations in 2017 was removed, and I'm just wondering if there's a specific formatting reason or whatever.

The context I'm referring to:

 Despite Hungary's political alignment with the Russian Federation, which has been involved in armed conflict with Ukraine since 2014 in the Russo-Ukrainian War, relations between the two countries remained positive as recently as 2016.

Thanks!! Cran32 (talk | contributions) 02:03, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Cran32:,

Hi,

1. the added sentence is a POV, especially the exerted a reign of terror, as well the number of deaths are dubious, there is no consensus on it. We should ignore disputed parts, and give an concise overview, in the scope of this article. On the other issue, the accusations of Klimkin cannot be represented as facts (everybody knows significant number of members of the Ukrainian parliament have had double or even triple citizenships, over a decade since such issues emerged, etc.), along with many spurious allegations, which was just the element of the political shoapbox and clash. As well, there has not been any interference or violation of the Ukrainian laws regarding the election, on the contrary local Hungarians and organizations were abused, permanently threatened and intimidated, and even a homeless "clone" named "Vasyl Brenzovich" was put as an electee the same pleace where the "true" one participated, so an inclusion that was put is completely failing WP:NPOV, and ardently attesting a one-sided and even spurious representation of the events, however, these are just accusations, so like these they have no place in the article. We cannot present opinions as facts, the language law is a fact, not an opinion, e.g.

2. This is again a POV statement. Hungary does not have any political alignment with Russia, or if it has, then Germany, France or other countries have three or five times more significant political alingments with her, but I could mention Serbia or several other countries which have much more extent and closer ties. Considering, Hungary gave many humanitarian support for Ukraine, even outside of Transcarpathia, etc.

Kind Regards!(KIENGIR (talk) 03:00, 27 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR:

Carpatho-Ukraine invasion: The phrasing was my bad; however, while there isn't a complete consensus regarding the specific number of deaths, there does seem to be a consensus that the number is in the tens of thousands. Moreover, the estimate of 27,000 is the number used across Wikipedia (Carpatho-Ukraine, ru:Оккупация Венгрией Закарпатской Украины (1939), etc.). I'd still argue for inclusion of the 27,000 figure, but if not would a reworded (again, my bad) sentence using tens of thousands or thousands instead work?

Passport distrubtion: The claim that Hungarian diplomats instructed passport recipients to hide their citizenship from authorities isn't exactly an accusation - here's the video.

Electoral interference: I believe independent media has reported this as violating specific Ukrainian laws (including sources cited in the article); I'm also realizing that the raiding, threatning, and abuse of local Hungarian organizations is very relevant to the content of the section. Considering that both of these are facts, would including both in the article solve the NPOV issue?

Political alignment Would a less vague claim + source describing Hungary's specific reaction to the annexation of Crimea work instead? If not, considering that this is just a POV problem, the part confirming positive relations in 2016 could still be included, right?

I'm aware I probably have some bias on this topic, so any help in editing it out while maintaining content would be deeply appreciated! Thanks - Cran32 (talk | contributions) 03:39, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Cran32:,

CUI: well, it is true the phrase is also present in that article (though the source is not satisfying, quite one sided), however it has been phrased and placed neutrally (it is not clear on who's side would be terror, since even this could be a subject of debate or certain point of view, given the fact that the Sich mostly suffered losses by the clash with the Polish border guards, meanwhile leaving the area, etc. so I would be in favor a complete rephrasing, then I would see viable insertion.

PD: I watched the video, the translation fails, it is said It is practial not to make it public..., which is not the same what is stated by the anyway too one-sided source.

EI: yes, we have to give a complete overwiev of the events, not to be commited at one side, and being careful with accusations/opinions vs. facts, especially when there are contradictive events or even sources, we may use such attributions like claimed, according to, etc. The most important factor of the neutral apprach not to represent opinions as facts, since the events took place in huge political tensions and gaming, not necessarily because of the disagreements with Hungary per se, but the Poroshenko-Zelensky rivalry or the clashes with Russia have been also implicit/explicit factors.

PA: Well, I would completely avoid claiming any alingment, which would be again part of the political shoapboxing. Hungary (together with the EU) openly declared they don't recognize the annexation of Crimea and are pro-Ukraine, being interested in an independent, sovereign Ukrainian state.

Sure you cant count me, most of the article you have written very well, I never considered any bad intention from your behalf, if there are problems, we may discuss any time and settle them! Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 10:55, 27 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

@KIENGIR: my proposals:

CUI: "In the chaos that followed, 27,000 civilians were killed"

PD: Fair enough; I'll leave that out.

EI: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the major abuses of rights/raids/etc. occurred in 2020? If so, reintroduce illegality into 2019 election section and make a separate section following that about the oppression of Hungarian orgs.?

PA: Also fair; I agree that this doesn't belong in the article.

Best, Cran32 (talk | contributions) 15:36, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Cran32:,

CUI: ok!

EI: these abuses were continous, however cumulated as the elections were approaching or meanhile (explosion in Uzhhorod, Mirotrovec death-listing, SBU "investigations" - accusations with separatism, "attack of the clones" regarding Brenzovics, abusing activitst, etc., sure we have to do some work to have a proper chronology and narrow the scope near to the elections, if both sides/claims/accusations are presented, of course you may reintroduce what you added, with appropriate attribution. I think you first you should fix the article's talk page should not redirect to the Foreign relations of Hungary TP. If made, you may present there the proposals of the added material, and we may together imrove, verify it before adding it to the article! Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 12:16, 28 February 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Ukrainians in Kuban

Hey,

I reverted your revert Ukrainians in Kuban based on MOS:IDENTITY sorry for not including it in the summery of my original edit—blindlynx (talk) 21:15, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Optional style redux

Happened to bump into this edit of yours from a couple weeks ago at Master race, where all you did was capitalize the initial 'S' on {{short description}}. I'm disappointed. Didn't we just go through this optional-style thing in agonizing detail above at #Do not Edit war to enforce optional style? After I failed to persuade you, you called on Vanjagenije who did a better job of it, as you really seemed to get it after that, and I thought that was the end of it. Again, this is one of the smallest infractions around and one not worth fixing, but then, you just said you wouldn't go there anymore, and yet, here we are. I'm mystified why you're at it again. Is it like a itch you just can't help scratching, even though the doctor just told you not to scratch it? Please tell me something that helps me make sense of this. Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 04:53, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mathglot:,

I cite your own words: "...and every edit should improve the article in some way, however minor. Thanks". If you check the edit you cited, it was not solely changing one charachter (what we discussed I kept and never commited again), but as well made other improvement in it (and after our discussion, I even outlined this in my first akin edit in the edit log, and got no objection).(KIENGIR (talk) 12:43, 2 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Notes on claims you’ve made about your english proficiency

Hi KIENGIR, just FYI your english skills are not as strong as you think they are and despite your strident claims otherwise do appear to have caused much of the confusion at Talk:Romani people in Hungary. When someone tells you they can’t understand you the answer should be to check a dictionary or with a native speaker or something like that and make sure you said what you meant to say, the answer should not be screaming ""you seem to have clarified a little" I have to take as your personal stance, since my argumentations understandability is far beyond any English skills, it's for a time an issue of semantical and logical understandability. I won't repeat - and again wasting time - the discussions about the person you mention, those may be read above wht what was said there holds." into the void. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:09, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Horse Eye's Back:

I see your point, but please have in mind the user recurrently denied evidence, which have been proved with diffs, explained (independent of English proficiency), and what I tried to the say the logic is flawless even if my English is not native (I suggested the opposite you consider, I did not praise language proficiency), and not understandong something the tenth time e.g. has nothing to do with language, given the fact the other user seems native English to me.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:30, 2 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I can see why you both ended that conversation feeling frustrated and unheard, I’m not saying that the other party is entirely blameless in the matter but slowing down and explaining your points slowly and in detail is immensely helpful to editors (like me) who stumble upon the discussion and have great difficulty understanding what is going on due to a wall of what appears to mostly be tangents and personal squabbles. You may have made the most convincing and perfectly proven argument, but I couldn’t find it in the wall of text on the talk page. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:40, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Horse Eye's Back:,

well, I did these slow-points-down explanations, and when repeatedly made, even used timestamps and diffs (on that you are right because of the other user's non-understanding a huge wall-of-text was "provocated", which would be in fact totally useless, if the main thing would have been caught earlier. I think in the beginning of the discussion (not just the last sections, which were opened by the user unwantedly and with that he/she was cloning and duplicating/escalating discussions) everything may easily grasped (violence section is the starting point).(KIENGIR (talk) 17:50, 2 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

@Horse Eye's Back:,

Addendum, I suggest you to retract your comments/questions in the article's talk, because the issue as at DRN ongoing, there you may find summarized expanations and I don't want to endorse further cloning. Thank you.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:54, 2 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Oh, thanks for letting me know, I saw mentions of potentially going to DRN on the page but I didn’t realize you guys had. Can you please link the DRN case? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:58, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Horse Eye's Back:,

WP:DRN, first case (sorry not giving direct one, my time is limited and was even pinged there, but did not engage yet). Please revert your questions from the article's talk, since for prodecural reasons as I mentioned I won't answer them under these circumstances. Thank You.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:03, 2 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:04, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Laszlo Lorand

(I thought I'd bring this to your user talk page, rather than continue it at the Teahouse). I absolutely did not intend to imply that you intended to be unkind; but the result of both your and SenatorLevi's actions was that a new user (only five edits) had seen his edit unaccountably not appear, and when he asked on the supposedly friendly place where you can ask questions to get help with using and editing Wikipedia, somebody replied with more jargon that didn't explain what he'd done wrong, what he would need to do, or where to find out more information. As I suggested, putting more information in the edit summary is desirable, but not enough when you're talking to a new user who may not know about the history. --ColinFine (talk) 15:04, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ColinFine,

again, I did not know anything about the user's background.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:08, 3 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Ganz Works Reverted Edits

https://cghr4u.cgglobal.com/careers/ourcomp.html I've noticed you've reverted the categorization of Ganz Works even though it is an Associate of Avantha Group. Please let me know if i'm mistaken. Thanks. Tharun S Yadla (talk) 16:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ColinFTharun S Yadlaine,

thank you, I self-reverted.(KIENGIR (talk) 16:50, 3 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Your English

I'm amazed that you haven't taken the opportunities afforded to you to correct the defect in your draft that makes Lakatos's first comment meaningless, so I doubt you will do anything about this either, but I suppose it is worth mentioning for fairness' sake. You have factually misrepresented my argument in your summary due to a good faith misunderstanding of the grammar of the English language. Perhaps you could have a look at this? You have factually misrepresented it in other places too, but I can't find a specific grammar point that relates to that. Boynamedsue (talk) 08:12, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just stop this,

I was amazed how you dared to repeat (despite refuted) or even render more spurious allegations just to eliminate what you don't like, especially you're newly invented fake notion about the aim of legitimizing "racist" anything, that is all by far. Don't steal anymore my precious time, you did already too much! I don't what what "defect" or "grammar" you refer, and please, don't preach about any "misrepresentation", because this is all you do since months, everywhere, repetitevely in an extensive amount. Enough!(KIENGIR (talk) 08:23, 5 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I am referring to your assertion that I accepted that the first Lakatos source was valid. I will make no further comments on your talk page, per your request. Boynamedsue (talk) 08:59, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Boynamedsue,

I did not make such request, I requested not to steal my time, however, especially in this subject really not further manifestation is necessary n+1 places, the n+1 times. Now I understood what you refer, yes, I just misread the restence (don't worry, I don't need grammar lessons). As well, I disagree in the DRN any imprecise/unclear things would happen, at least from my behalf it did not, but the opposite.(KIENGIR (talk) 11:22, 5 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Domagoj Vida

Hey Kiengir, just wanted to ask you about your edit here. There is no mention in the article or citation saying he is of Hungarian decent. I mean it’s very much possible as he is from Slavonia. Do you have a source you can add to his personal life section? Cheers OyMosby (talk) 20:14, 7 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@OyMosby:,

sorry that I am short, but very busy, will react in timely manner. About this: ^[1].(KIENGIR (talk) 20:32, 7 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

No worries, no rush! OyMosby (talk) 20:44, 7 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just read the article. Never knew his father was of Hungarian heritage. Or is it mix of Hungarian and Croatian, his father. Either way Vida sounds like a Hungarian surname. Pretty cool never knew this. Then again never really looked into Vida’s personal life bio. OyMosby (talk) 01:40, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@OyMosby:,

Yes, because of the name even without knowing the details, were curious, since this name occurs in Hungary, not foreign to our ears, however despite, may be of Slavic origin but I did not investigate this.(KIENGIR (talk) 09:53, 8 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

References

1. https://www.nemzetisport.hu/minden_mas_foci/vida-janos-unokaja-is-kivette-a-reszet-a-horvat-vb-ezustbol-2662459

Military Frontier

I'm not sure if I understood this well, but I never read that this part of the Militay Frontier (Petrovaradin) belonged to the Kingdom of Hungary? [38] Tezwoo (talk) 00:55, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, @Tezwoo:,

"Magyarország közigazgatási rendszerében a 19. század elején a határőrvidék kerületeit: Német bánsági ezred, Oláh-illír bánsági ezred, Bródi ezred, Gradiskai ezred,[3] Péterváradi ezred, Sajkások (Csajkások) kerülete, Likai ezred, Ogulini ezred, Otocsáci ezred,[4] Szluini ezred, Kőrösi ezred, Szentgyörgyi ezred, I. báni ezred, II. báni ezred néven tartották nyilván"^[1]

It was part of Hungary, however, the military and civil administration was imposed by the Habsburgs, which has been a common conflict point. In 1848 on paper deputies and voting rights with entrance to the parliamnet was achieved, but remained only formal. Since 1850 it was declared as a separate crownland, only the in 1868, the Croatian-Hungarian settlement reverted the things back and assigned accordingly them to Croatia-Slavonia, and Hungary respectively.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:17, 8 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

References

1. https://net.jogtar.hu/ezer-ev-torveny?docid=00000013.MEL&searchUrl=/ezer-ev-torvenyei%3Fpagenum%3D52

Edit warring on Romanian politicians categories (et al.) - link to centralized discussion

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Category:Politicians from Subotica; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.  

You are invited to join the discussion at WT:CATP § Prior affiliations, relative to recent edit-warring at Category:Politicians from Bratislava, Category:Politicians from Cluj-Napoca, Category:Politicians from Košice, Category:Politicians from Subotica and Category:Politicians from Timișoara. Place Clichy (talk) 08:41, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Place Clichy:,

Thank you. I just restored to status quo, btw. at one instances I opened a discussion, which the next reverter did not even join (now you did), so I consider this warning a bit too early given the circumstances. Of course I will join the discussion.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:21, 10 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Your email

Hi KIENGIR,

I saw your email. I'm not really sure why you'd ask me, but (1) on the substance of the categorization dispute, your change is just clearly wrong for the reasons described by those that reverted you, and (2) ignoring the substance, the strongly negative feedback suggested you shouldn't have continued to edit in your preferred change as a matter of Wikipedia procedure.

I am happy to go into more detail but since you seem to have a habit of wasting other editor's time and ignoring what they're saying in order to tell them how they're wrong, I recommend you read this story first:

https://ashidakim.com/zenkoans/1acupoftea.html

If you are willing to accept feedback, I can give you some. If your cup of tea is full already, then there's no point. SnowFire (talk) 16:04, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@SnowFire:,

Hi, without reading the details at first glance, I did not sent you any e-mail...so please inform me first what you get or from whom, I hope nobody attempted to impersonate me in bad faith or with a fraud...Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 16:13, 11 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Hi KIENGIR - my apologies! It wasn't an impersonation, but someone else sent me an email with "KIENGIR" as the title, and the Wikipedia email system sticks the actual user who sent it in tiny grey text. It was just a request for feedback on the Romanian category dispute, so I assumed it was you who was asking me to drop off my two cents there. Sorry about the mixup. SnowFire (talk) 17:23, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@SnowFire:,

thank you for the feedback. I may even guess which user was - not the first time he is mailing others in connection with me, did it years ago as well, I was never his favorite and struggles to eliminate me -, probably the one who did not enter to the talk page and did not even notify me about the discussion (he could have easily), but started before blaming me of misconduct in other editors talk pages as well, where he surprisingly referred to that discussion which I did know and was not informed, regarding the category (despite we know each other, and even collaborated more times, so I am very sad about this phenomenon). Btw. the roots of this have zero connection to the recent issues you noticed. You may take this as well as a reaction to the above lines, my cup of tee is is only may be filled if I meet such bad faith phenomenon. :( (KIENGIR (talk) 17:43, 11 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Okay. But FWIW, since I ended up tricked into intervening anyway, let me stress again what I said on the Nazi Germany talk page very bluntly since you replied to me there, but I didn't want to devolve into another mess. There are certain statements that essentially remove all expectation of competence on a topic - if somebody thinks magnets are powered by the astral plane, or thinks that Napoleon was the King of Britain during the Napoleonic Wars. I want you to understand just how bad a stance that Nazi Germany should not be classified as fascist is - it's akin to my ridiculous examples before. I believe you that for some subtle "system" you have in your head what you did makes sense to you, but you are wrong on this, your system mislead you, and while you remain so profoundly wrong on this your opinion should be given little weight. Please consider that the problem might be on your side and show a little humility there. I'm not interested in debating the subtleties of your own internal categorization or why it really makes sense, I'm just telling you that the result was very, very wrong. SnowFire (talk) 21:16, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@SnowFire:,

Ok. I have to reinforce is it evident my subtle-system continously checking, self-controlling, backpropagatively (by engineering/science it is evident), so you should not think I do not process other inputs or don't revise if necessary (would be very lame at my level and expertise). Your summarization is again not really accurate (despite I explained twice), simiarly the examples by comparison, though I don't feel the need to repeat the third time I've already pinpointed more times (btw. it could be easily demonstrated by set theory or by basic taxonomy, which anyway our WP categorization follows correctly in this topic - "degree of relation"). Hence the golden rule is (in general), noone should suggest behavioral issues, when in fact content issues are not clarified and/or are misundertood. Have a nice Day/Evening.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:34, 11 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Recent edits at World War II

Apologies for reverting your edit alone, when what I meant to do was remove the previously recently added text, as you have now done. Dhtwiki (talk) 10:58, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Dhtwiki:,

Sure, Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 11:44, 12 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Law and Justice's position on political spectrum

Hello, there is currently a debate here that might interested you. --Martopa (talk) 14:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Siege of Budapest

You've given no reason and a non-reason for reverting my case fix. In the siege of Budapest, lowercase "siege" is overwhelmingly more common in sources. And lowercase "siege of Budapest" still conforms to the sentence-case title "Siege of Budapest". Is there some actual reason you prefer caps here? Dicklyon (talk) 05:46, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon:,

for the last one I gave a reason, which you read, conforming with the article title means that it is identical with it, you should self-revert your last edit. In case I accept the lowercase at other parts of the article.(KIENGIR (talk) 11:22, 14 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

That's not a reason. Article titles always start with a capital letter (e.g. Cannon), but then the use in a sentence (including the lead sentence) depends on whether the term is treated as a proper name (e.g. lowercase in "A cannon is a large-caliber gun..."), as evidenced by consistent capitalization in sources. That's why I said that your edit summary was a non-reason. Please review WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS and how they relate. Dicklyon (talk) 18:48, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon:,

Thank You.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:16, 14 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Johnny Weismuller

Hello my friend, I’m writing in regards to your revert of my additions over at Johnny Weismuller I have to be honest it was a major blow to see that notification. I put hours into researching credible sources and putting facts and information pertaining to him in my own words. I rewrote poorly organized sections, removed riff raft. Things that didn’t belong like an own section called “special funny event”. I removed information that was either false or not cited. I then replaced it with fact and cited my sources. I added citations where they were needed as well and made the article credible. I was sincerely hoping you could re-examine what I removed and what I added and hopes that you will have second thoughts on your removal. I thoroughly respect your tenure at Wikipedia and wanted to get your thoughts, thank you. Elvisisalive95 (talk) 17:35, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Elvisisalive95:,

sorry for the blanket revert, I am sure you did not have any negative aim, however you eliminated as well very important parts of the biography which had good and important reliable sources (moreover, your removal of accurate information, and adding a completely fake information like "Weissmuller was born (...)in Freidorf, Romania" has been a huge problem. I suggest you open a case in the talk regarding non-biogprahical information like special funny events, or other parts of the article, so we may give preliminary feedback to your plans of rewriting the article, but leave the lead and Early life sections as they are, and don't perform too much modifications/eliminations at once (11 000~ was very enormous). Regards!(KIENGIR (talk) 17:48, 17 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you for getting back to me and the explanation, my change of his birth place came from text I read from his own website. https://www.johnnyweissmuller.com/biography/ Elvisisalive95 (talk) 18:32, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Elvisisalive95:,

sure. Well, that is completely false, regardless where it is from. Romania was never part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the one who have written in his .com page is shamefully ignorant. The commune he was born was part of Hungary, and that territory later became part of Romania, etc. That's why is the best first discuss thorough changes, so we may filter even good faith errors.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:08, 17 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I’m glad I reached out to you. Thanks for the info, I’ll see you around Wikipedia!  Thanks Elvisisalive95 (talk) 19:11, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

March 2021

Your edit to László Lovász has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. You reintroduced unattributed and copy-pasted content. You are responsible when you reintroduce copyright violations. Furthermore, please provide an explanation when you revert removals of unreferenced content. — MarkH₂₁^talk 01:07, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@MarkH21:,

don't overreact the situation, I made one edit, you explained, this message at this point was completely unnecessary. If I would have tried more despite, or in the article's talk page you would warn me and I would do it again, etc., only after such messages should be put on users talkpages. Mind this in the future.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:14, 19 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

KIENGIR, actually MarkH21 is doing you a favor by informing you of this. Unlike Wikipedia policies and guidelines, which however strongly they are supported by community consensus, and thus are strongly recommended to all users but nevertheless can be ignored under rare circumstances, copyright issues are a matter of Wikipedia's licensing requirements, which depend on U.S. and international law, and can never be ignored under any circumstances. Along with legal threats, failing to pay attention to copyright is the quickest way to get blocked. MarkH21 was merely letting you know. Your response was a bit curt; all you needed to say in response, was something like, "Oops! sorry, and thanks for the notice!" Hope you're well. Mathglot (talk) 09:08, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mathglot:,

Thank you for informing me. I've often got many unneded warnings (I am as well fed up the intense harassments lately), so maybe I should have checked better the user's background; e.g. a mathematician with an Erdős number 2 is definitely not a troll category. Sorry @MarkH21:, next time please include subject/headline a an infinitesimal function, or at least bi-directional non-Eucledian vector translation, so in my bad moments I may immediately recognize I am dealing with a top level issue :-).(KIENGIR (talk) 14:45, 19 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Notice of RfC discussion at the Flag of Albania page

There is currently a discussion at Talk:Flag of Albania regarding an issue with which you may be interested in and since I've known you to be fair even where we were on opposing sides --Havsjö (talk) 09:33, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

EDIT WARRING NOTICE

EDIT WARRING NOTICE

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Good Joke, this won't help you...(KIENGIR (talk) 17:47, 21 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

EDIT WARRING NOTICE

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. Azure94 (talk) 10:58, 24 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The second useless copy-paste nowadays. Fine!(KIENGIR (talk) 11:00, 24 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Scrolling up your talk page reveals an entire sea of edit warring notices. You just can't help yourself getting into fights and breaking the rules... Azure94 (talk) 11:09, 24 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, most of them was not appropriate, since requirements either did not met, or were boomerang notices, or the one who sent are indeffed already. Vast majority of the time I did not break any rule.(KIENGIR (talk) 11:15, 24 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Executive Court of Prešov

Do you not know of any source about this where the names of the executed are also listed? The current version – Slovakized version of Hungarian, Saxon etc. names – is unacceptable to me. I could support it if there were multiple name variants next to each other. --Norden1990 (talk) 11:12, 24 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Norden1990:

It was copied from the Czech/Slovak Wikipedia. I support contemporary names.(KIENGIR (talk) 13:16, 24 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Ukrainian nationalist propaganda

Would you mind explaining why you keep reverting edits that remove nationalist propaganda, e.g. from the article on Verecke Pass? There's no evidence that an alleged massacre took place there. This story was completely made up by some niche right-wing journalists, no historical sources mention such an event. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.185.112.15 (talk) 18:15, 24 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@79.185.112.15:,

Hi, what I restored is not a "Ukrainian nationalist propaganda". When the Sich guards were leaving meanwhile the Hungarian occupation and annexation, they encountered Polish border guards when leaving the Carpathian Mountains. Maybe we could rephrase it to be more neutral.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:48, 24 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Radically modifications.

Hello. User Jeremiad469 has been making radical changes to the Western world and Western culture pages, he has expressed his opinions on the respective talk pages but has removed a high content from both pages without being consulted by any another user. This is already the third time that their editions have been discarded despite the fact that they had already been warned of these changes. Do you think both pages should be protected? Thanks for your attention. --Edmodok (talk) 17:26, 25 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Edmodok:,

I reviewed the issues, at the Western World from one user I see one modification, which was reverted lately, similary to the other page. A discussion has been started both talk pages, however, no consensus have been reached yet. Warnings I did not see any user's talk page, just in edit logs. My opinion is continue discussion in the talk page to see you may reach consensus. In case the user would make more reverts without agreement, warn him on their talk page. If despite the user would continue the turn an administrator likely, who may protect the page, I don't see it necessary earlier than the aforementioned trajectory. The Western culture article is not on my watchlist, but the other page I will be informed of the happenings, indeed. Cheers!(KIENGIR (talk) 23:48, 25 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

edit-warring on Romanian-Hungarian war

I am going to give you the chance to self-revert your edit on this page, please do so, as you have a long history of edit-warring on that page and a block is a very probable outcome of any escalation. Boynamedsue (talk) 12:33, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Boynamedsue:,

First of all - the last time - I draw you attention to strictly avoid not telling the truth. I don't have a long history of edit-warring on that page, and there is no edit-warring event on that page recently (what have been, was already dealt with). Secondly, I don't understand why I would have to self-revert myself, since it would result an erroneous revision, which you introduced by reinstating the blocked user's inaccurate addition partially, so from a possible block you should be afraid if you enforce that in the future. On the other hand there has been a discussion, which you ignored, where we tried to solve the issue friendly. Consequently in case of disagreement we may revert to that state before Super Dromeosaurus touched that sentence, and if someone has concerns, we may listen to it in the talk (btw, the current version, already copyedited by another user is now completely accurate).(KIENGIR (talk) 14:25, 27 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

ANI notice

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Biruitorul ^Talk 01:27, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

revert your text quickly

I strongly recommend you revert the mention of the Securitate in your wall of text. The use of that particular term to address a Romanian takes your incivility into the territory of abuse based on ethnicity, you are quite likely to get banned if anybody else notices. Boynamedsue (talk) 15:04, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Boynamedsue, please stop your harassment, you harmed so many rules of incivility, WIKIHOUNDING, recruiting other editors against me WP:HA, you should just silenty step back, because as said, WP:BOOMERANG may hit you as well, if you don't stop. Per other policies, I should not necessarily alter my already launched edits, as per the report, quite similar pattern is seen, which you even endorse by yourself "...It is worth looking at those discussion pages, for your scrapbook...". Btw. I used the same term in another ANI discussion back in the past when Biruitorul performed his first nice step, and there has been not any problem with it, I also inform you Communism has ended, and as agreed with Biruitorul, we support freedom of speech. Don't not try to censor me, and better apologize on your part and deeply learn our policies, and do not necessarily intervene on those issues wich fell outside your expertise area. You failed so many times, I hope this is your last abuse towards me, if you really wish to be sanctioned just continue. Thanks.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:18, 28 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

Ok, last try. I feel editing wikipedia matters to you, you will likely lose your ability to do so unless you show some understanding of why so many people feel you are detrimental to the project. If you have any desire to continue, go to the AIN and apologise for your comments to B, and express a desire to change your behaviour, and you may have the slightest chance of continuing as part of the community. This advice is meant to help you, apologies if it is not welcome, there will be no further comment from me here. Boynamedsue (talk) 17:49, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There has been not any problem with understading from my side, I am amazed you come up again with such nonsense that I should apologize for some comments, since I already clarified the situation, in fact I should have received that. E.g. this ([39]), ([40]) manifestations of yours just reinforcing your understanding problems, that has been ever, so you really caused more harm instead of thinking what you did wrong (failed to grasp I referred to B's first bad faith report, also then, it has history, why I would retract something that happened, mentioned, the same way miscarachterized like in the other manifestation where you erroneously claimed a racist POV (people will laugh at ATV, even those who dislike ATV :) ) after you run out from bogus arguments, despite you were disproved, you now even misused the memory of the Holocaust just to put a dramatic stress pattern on your efforts...so pitiful (btw. not surprised, my discussion with El C you interpred else as it was, nothing new, your interpretational skills are unfortunately terrible, as demonstrated many times (at least once you self-admitted being a terrible wikilawyer, the same way true)...consequently your charachterization like "farce" stands the same way, indeed true in the opposite meaning, the same way you blanked inconvenient things in your talk page. This tells all.

Just look this ([41]), this provocative irony is his style, the only disaster in fact is the evidence presented against his report was ignored, if he really thought I should pretend to change any mind, sorry, this place is not a heretic inquisition, neither a brainwash in a dictatorship with coercion. Or see this, ([42]), "The Winner"'s summarization is as well typical, ironic. This is in fact not a flawless victory, since morally it is total loss since the beginning, however as I experienced about morale much of the users did not care, and the fact it was closed without waiting to reveal the evidence to see the full picture by ArbCom ("right time", even impolitely not waiting for @El C:'s response and evaluation, which he promised in a few days), just justified my point unfortunately, the community did not even care to be look like this showcase trial as fair. Levivich, a not too much experienced but frequent ANI stalker opened this his proposal without waiting all the evidence, is so much lame, amaterurish, I never even heard such to judge something without having all the information (an elementary principle of any trial), twice as bad those who voted did not care or pointed out of this (including a few administrators, even a lawyer (!), who even failed even the minimal analysis in an other case, terrible...).

To say nothing of BMK also made his repeated "nice" step to quickly close the discussion, without giving the chance - not necessarily answer to you - but to see the full picture, just reinforces all of this, this has been a true conspiracy (note again above about waiting for El C, or other discussion which are open for weeks, but at least one week). Rsk400 should not concern, B is very happy (I've been the one he always wanted to eliminate, the true reasons have been always clear, which an outsider could hardly understand/grasp out of topic, he probably will never face anyone with my quality, may destroy some good work, so the feast is guaranteed), about what Rsk was insisting about fair play in your talk page, is the most awful manifestation I could hear given the circumstances, explained more time. @Krakkos: will be a harder job (the ping I only did, because by principle I openly do not thank any ANI contribution, however I answered to it without it, I hope it was read, I am proud for anyone with a solid backbone which cannot be coined/bent). Even if the tendency here that long answers are disliked, the ban-me interpetation is false, even regarded most of the user's like such, I won't fool anyone, I have high morale values and a consistent behavior, those who respect me, they have done it for this, I will never lie and/or be unfair like you or others did. Back to your initial sentence, if editing WP would matter if I start to lie and pretend evidence is non-existent, like stare at a ceiling (borrowing B's words), then sorry, it is irrelevant how much would it matter to me, at this point my personal feelings are less important, in fact the project will loose at certain areas heavily sharp and accurate information, and nevetheless (as referred above) it will be an easy subject to destroy, damage and maniplate facts to POVs at certain areas by many other editors, who just waited for the moment, as some sensitive topics it is a constant matter and danger.

For me, El C and Gerda's award is the best justification, both of them have a very high level of understanding, good faith and Gerda's precisity is something we share I think. I am proud I never reported B, not even you, despite the constant provocations, personal attacks (so I could not be baited for this, if this has been an alternate plan), I professionally concentrated on content, I was in a way naive after all, however at least I can proudly look in the mirror. Although both of you worked hard to provoke and train editors against me, especially it's surprising how you became his loyal and pro-active servant, as generally an outsider of these topic areas. Maybe because our heavy debate, you were considered eligible as the best agent. However, I don't care, I did not live with canvassing or off-wiki coordination, did not even turn myself to Arbcom without waiting for the El C's advice. I am heavily disappointed by the community's senseless, ignorant attitude of the problems presented, and I am proud as well I did not ping mass number of editor's considering they would support me, while the other side worked hard to do the recruit, this has been again against wikietiquette (only three of the pinged one may be considered not having any relevant debate with me), while those editors who would support my side, were coerced and questioned a bit, how they dare so and not dance as B wants. With necessary good faith, the report could have stand without initial pingings, but if so, why the majority were selected from I had debates with? "True fair play", never mind, I thought those who engage really check diffs/evidence and spend time, but no, they voted mostly by gut, with a huge double measure. E.g. Obernritter's vote, who style himself as a professional historian, stated some things that did not even happen, despite discussion, evidence is in the relevant tp (also the diff to the discussion with El C), but it does not matter. Like this, consructive dialogue is not possible, which is not my fault at this point. WP has it's democratic brakes, to decide upon community vote/consensus, in which the outcome has to be respected in our framework, however this evidently does not mean the outcome would be the best decision (and refer to any of those, apart from this ANI).(KIENGIR (talk) 22:40, 29 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

March 2021

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for abuse of editing privileges.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:45, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is in relation to the discussion here, in which the community has requested a full site ban from Wikipedia. RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:48, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@RickinBaltimore:,

let me ask a few questions for clarity:

1. In my userpage, it is written "...banned by the community..". While at the closure and here, the subject seems you (the one who banned), per the request of the community. Please clarify then, if you as an admin you are obliged to follow the community consensus per policy and fulfill their request, or in fact you are the one who made this descision, per the community feedback?

2. It is possible to restore my userpage it was, would be any policy against it? (that's all for now, based on the answers I may ask more) Thank You.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:55, 29 March 2021 (UTC))[reply]

I was closing the discussion that took place at which the community decided to ban you. The consensus was clear, and I simply enacted the community request. Therefore you were banned by the community. RickinBaltimore (talk) 23:29, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No, you will not be asking more questions. You are site banned, which means you are prohibited from making any edit, including to your own user talk page, under any and all circumstances, with the sole exception of posting an appeal (note, the standard offer for an appeal is a minimum of six months). For any and all information pertaining to what this ban means, see WP:BAN. If you cannot comprehend the concept of an uninvolved admin implementing a consensus via a formal close, that's too bad, you're well past the point of being entitled to having someone take the time to explain it to you in good faith. Further edits to this page that are not an appeal will be reverted per WP:BANREVERT, and may result in the revocation of your ability to edit this page. This includes replies to this comment. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 02:48, 30 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution.

Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!

Pasé por alto el requisito de notificar a los participantes en sus páginas de discusión. Estoy reparando ese error ahora. Mis disculpas. -- Isaac Rabinovitch ( discusión ) 06:33, 7 de abril de 2021 (UTC) [ responder ]

Me divierte que hayas encontrado tiempo para agradecerme por avisarte. Lamento tu prohibición. Hubiera sido bueno si hubieras podido participar en la discusión. Isaac Rabinovitch ( discusión ) 00:24 8 abr 2021 (UTC) [ responder ]

PROXYING

En relación con esto, pedirle a otros editores que editen por usted podría provocar que se le bloquee globalmente la edición en cualquier proyecto de WMF. Beyond My Ken ( discusión ) 02:39, 8 de abril de 2021 (UTC) [ responder ]

NO ME CONTACTES DE NUEVO

Recibí un correo electrónico tuyo hoy. No me contactes de nuevo por correo electrónico ni por ningún otro método. Si lo haces, se informará a los administradores y sugeriré que te bloqueen globalmente de todos los proyectos de WMF. Beyond My Ken ( discusión ) 00:43, 13 de abril de 2021 (UTC) [ responder ]

Correo electrónico

KIENGIR, esto es para confirmar que he recibido tu correo electrónico, pero me temo que ya he dedicado todo el tiempo que podía dedicar a tu disputa con el consejo que me solicitaste en mi página de discusión. Simplemente no puedo dedicarle más tiempo. Lamento saber que las cosas no terminaron de manera amistosa (por decirlo suavemente). Saludos, El_C 23:29, 22 de abril de 2021 (UTC) [ responder ]

Aviso de ANI

Actualmente hay una discusión en Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de administradores/Incidencias sobre un problema en el que usted puede haber estado involucrado. Gracias. dud hhr _Contribs 22:27, 11 de junio de 2021 (UTC) [ responder ]

Espectro húngaro

¿El obituario del fundador de este blog es de contenido enciclopédico?-- 176.77.136.98 ( discusión ) 11:46 2 dic 2021 (UTC) [ responder ]

Correo electrónico

Estimado Kiengir, gracias por tu correo electrónico. Seguro que me ayudará en el futuro. Un cordial saludo, -- Smoothcheeks ( discusión ) 12:59 11 abr 2022 (UTC) [ responder ]