Last year there was consensus established that he should not be called a war criminal in the first sentence as there has not been a criminal conviction perWP:BLPCRIME among other reasons. As a result the second sentence specifying what a civil court found was added to. We should not be adding war criminal in wikivoice now unless there's been a criminal conviction. 2001:8F8:1D63:6485:17CD:3B73:BC40:4AD0 (talk) 04:01, 8 May 2024 (UTC)— 2001:8F8:1D63:6485:17CD:3B73:BC40:4AD0 (talk · contribs) is a sock puppet of Orchomen (talk · contribs).
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should Ben Roberts-Smith be referred to as war criminal in the first sentence of the lede? 05:43, 8 May 2024 (UTC) 94.200.83.10 (talk) 05:43, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law.Emphasis added. Civil courts cannot issue criminal convictions. Cullen328 (talk) 07:29, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law.in the WP:BLPCRIME section. -- DeFacto (talk). 08:55, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
In the case of public figures, there will be a multitude of reliable published sources, and BLPs should simply document what these sources say. If an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well documented, it belongs in the article—even if it is negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it". It is clear that BRS is a public figure (this has been discussed in other threads) and was so before the newspapers started their reporting on his war crimes and before he initiated his civil action, which he subsequently lost. Therefore WP:BLPPUBLIC is the is the relevant section of the policy to be reading. Per OJ or Trump, I suggest you take those discussions over there because WP:OTHERCONTENT is never a good argument. TarnishedPathtalk 11:56, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law.He has not been convicted, so we can't call him a criminal. NebY (talk) 12:50, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person. The Austlii link is a copy of a court record. It is explicitly out. TarnishedPathtalk 11:08, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Pinging @WWGB, @Anthony Staunton, @Horse Eye's Back, @Iskandar323, @GreatCaesarsGhost, @Vladimir.copic, @K.e.coffman, @The History Wizard of Cambridge and @Melbguy05 who are as far as I can tell are editors who have participated in previous discussion around "war criminal". Apologies if I've missed anyone. TarnishedPathtalk 10:26, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
Question for participants? How do we deal with the fact that the RfC opener has now been blocked as a sockpuppet? TarnishedPathtalk 12:37, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
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