Talk:Ariana Grande

RFC: LEAD IMAGE

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

I'm closing as an uninvolved editor requested at WP:RFCL. On the substance of this discussion, editors generally agreed on qualities the photos had, but disagreed on what qualities are most important. As an example, editors agreed that Option A showed Ariana Grande performing and was subjectively a good pose, but acknowledged it was low quality and old. Option B, on the other hand is new and high-resolution, but is "posed almost as though for a driver's license photo!" B2 suffers the same issues but to a lesser extent. Option C is new and high-resolution, but the lighting is horrible.

This makes it difficult to establish a consensus on the best image, since editors more or less agree the proposed options weren't that good and there's not much weighing to tell me how important good lighting is versus having an "action shot" of Ariana Grande singing. I would say there is no consensus on a choice between those particular images, but editors did gain some consensus on what makes an image "good", which is resolution, recency, depicting the subject in a way related to their notability, and lighting. Editors disagreed on the priority assigned to these different points, and that appeared to be the source of the disagreements. As a sidenote to my evaluation of the RfC itself, many editors rejected the premise of the RfC and proposed focusing on finding a new & better photo. Even editors that didn't !vote for the status quo/against the RfC wished that there was a better photo.

Since the RfC ended, editors have discovered a new image from a Met Gala video. This image meets the criteria of being well-lit, new, high-resolution, and an action shot of her singing. As far as I can tell, commenters prefer versions of that image (the specific version of such there isn't much consensus on) to any of the ones proposed in this RfC. While that image did not appear during this RfC, it would be silly not to use it for procedural reasons if editors don't have concerns about the image itself.

I was asked for guidance at WP:RFCL on finding a way forwards, and I would recommend continuing discussion on the Met Gala photo. If consensus can be achieved, I don't think it's necessary to have another RfC. In terms of improving discussion quality, I would suggest that editors explain why they believe one aspect of an image is more important than another, instead of just saying that an image is blurry, clear or new. This will help focus the discussion on what editors appear to disagree on. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 03:14, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

---

Hi fellow editors. The conversation about changing Ariana's photo seems to be going nowhere. From what I can see, there doesn't seem to be any decisions being made but constant edit warring, so I thought starting an RFC would be the best course of action. There are so many images available so I am unsure why this has become a problem but hopefully this speeds things along. Comment below which photo you think the article should to change to and feel free to comment on why! Maxwell King¹²³³²¹ 01:43, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Que 186.14.165.175 (talk) 02:22, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New lead image

• 
  A (current image)
• 
  B
• 
  C

• B as its less blurrier than the other two. Maxwell King¹²³³²¹ 01:44, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I added an RFC tag. Aoi (青い) (talk) 02:09, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment (Summoned by bot): this isn't going to be super helpful to resolving any existing impasse, but honestly, despite the fact that I've been RfC'd to/stumbled upon more than a dozen of these 'pick the BLP lead image' RfCs over the years, and always try to find some encyclopedically relevant criteria by which to provide feedback, this time I just can't see much difference between the options: all would be appropriate choices for the lead image: A and C arguably do a better job of representing the subject within the context that defines her notability, but B is more typical of BLP lead images and is arguably just a little more neutral and encyclopedically objective by just the slightest of degrees as a result. I would not have been shocked to find any of them as the lead image had I arrived at this article as a reader. SnowRise ^{let's rap} 12:49, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Status quo or RFC withdrawn These images are bad. B is horrible. C isn't really an improvement. This could all be avoided if there was a better image available, this RFC is basically just forcing the issue. Nemov (talk) 13:57, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Status quo or RFC withdrawn Essentially what Nemov said. Between these three, I would choose C, due to it combining the aspect of her performing as in picture A and the (relative) recency of picture B. Overall, I would let this topic be until we get a clear answer over whether she's touring this year or manage to get a photo that's in the public domain. Isthmus55 (talk) 14:12, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Status quo or RFC withdrawn, i.e., A (current image) (Summoned by bot): A is the only good image of the three, and shows her doing what made her notable in the first place. B is an unusual angle and zoom/crop for a bio photo. She's posed almost as though for a driver's license photo! Shot from below eye level is an unusual angle to see a not-very-tall musician photographed from. C is just a bad photo, with harsh shadows and the subject being underlit. Neither proposed change will improve the article. Vadder (talk) 14:27, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• B I don’t care about “doing what makes her notable” more than I care about the reading audience having an unobstructed, clear, modern, quality image of her face that isn’t from 2 presidents ago. It’s a perfectly fine image of her in her current age group. No other photos are available of the 2020s and that’s the problem. The fact that this is available and properly licensed (no copyright violations) is a no-brainer. Trillfendi (talk) 15:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Status quo or RFC withdrawn per Nemov. If people want an image of her face from yesterday I am sure they can find one through their favourite image search. This RfC is just a waste of everyone's time; if the RfCer really wants to "speed things along" they should withdraw this now—but that's not what they mean by "make a decision", is it? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:57, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  If people want to know why this article continues to fail Good Article nominations while her peers have them, this is a prime example of why. Trillfendi (talk) 00:51, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  These comments, both AirshipJungleman's and your own, are not terribly appropriate or helpful. Airship, if you're going to make oblique implications that the OP is acting in bad faith, then you should probably speak more plainly about what that behaviour is, rather than making vague, passive-aggressive suggestions. That, or better yet, take any behavioural concerns to an appropriate community forum and confine your comments here to the content issue or valid and clear procedural objections, as the TPGs direct.

  As far as I can tell, having read the preceding discussion, this is a procedurally and contextually valid RfC. There was an editorial dispute, and as the previous discussion (and the RfC itself) demonstrates, there was a wide span of perspectives on the best way forward that was resulting in a deadlock among involved editors. That's exactly what RfCs are for, and though I personally often feel that it can be a bit silly when a group of editors on some celebrity's BLP can't reasonably agree on a picture and have to RfC rather than one side or the other just giving way, it's still better than wasting community time on a slow moving edit war, and RfCs for determining the lead image are thus not uncommon.

  Frankly, these repeated "Status quo or withdraw RfC" !votes (being unaccompanied by a valid policy reason for retraction) feel like an effort to pressure one side to back down when the OP appears to be doing nothing more than following our typical and recommended dispute resolution process. Just let people have their say and we'll hopefully have a valid consensus at the end. Either way, implying bad faith conduct or a problematic approach without actually identifying policy non-complaint behaviour or process is not helpful in the least. Meanwhile, Trillfendi, piling one vague broadside about another editor being a problem on top of the first is also non-productive. SnowRise ^{let's rap} 13:21, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I didn’t say the editor was being problematic. I said it was indicative of one of the very reasons this article consistently fails Good Article nominations while her peers (Miley Cyrus and Harry Styles as two examples) succeed. That’s not the same thing. Trillfendi (talk) 16:00, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I was a "Status quo or withdraw RfC" !voter, and I don't want to pressure anybody. I, for one, am not really arguing policy either, just editorial judgement.

  The main underlying thesis of this RFC is something like "We need to change the photo, so change it to what?", which has a bad predicate. This is not a case of "We need to change the photo" as in the photo is bad, useless, or added in error. It should be "We have a good photo, but is this one better? How about this one instead?"

  Another underlying thesis of this RFC is that living persons still active in their careers should be represented by current photos. There's no policy to that effect (nor should there be), but it's good to strive for that. I commend striving for that.

  Find a good current photo we can use, or take one, and I would probably support the change. But "that's so last decade" (so to speak) is not a good argument in policy or in editing. Vadder (talk) 20:37, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Those are fine arguments (or rather counter-arguments) about suggested options/approaches. But there certainly was (and is) an active editorial dispute. And if anything, the approach the OP supported had marginally greater support in the original thread, as I read it as a respondent, after the fact--but definitely there was an impasse all the same. So implications that the RfC is in some way problematic, bad faith, or an abuse of function do not appear to add up to me.

  So while I certainly give full trust and AGF to your assertion that you don't want to pressure anyone, I'd suggest that "Status quo" would have sufficed in the circumstances, and certain other comments above definitely were heavy with the suggestion that the OP was pressing forward with an RfC that was inappropriate. And as an uninvolved community respondent looking at the previous discussion, I just don't see how that's so. Regardless, anyone suggesting a RfC be withdrawn ought to be citing to policy and specific facts showing why there is abuse of process. Failing that, they should just focus their comments on the content issue. SnowRise ^{let's rap} 07:20, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I take your point, and have struck the "RFC withdrawn" portion of my !vote, as I do not want to be interpreted as suggesting bad faith.

  The discussion above was a debate among people who want to change the image, but hadn't agreed to what. Then an RFC was opened, and naturally, though incorrectly, the starting position of the RFC was where the debate ended: "We're changing the photo, but to what?" You shouldn't limit an RFC like that.

  An RFC was perfectly appropriate here. This RFC assumes that change will be its outcome ("Comment below which photo you think the article should to change to..."), and that is not a good framing.

  Ultimately I don't think it matters. A number of respondents are ignoring the actual question and opining for the status quo, as I did. I'm sure those will be considered duly by the closer. Vadder (talk) 21:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  B - more recent and clear Cwater1 (talk) 22:45, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  This dispute is silly, that's why it should be withdrawn. The reason there's a dispute is because there's not a good alternative presented. This RFC is a waste of valuable resource time. If there was as good recent image then a RFC wouldn't be required. Instead, this is going to be a long drawn out process that will be pointless as soon a good, recent image is found. I wrote the original withdraw case for a good reason. It's a waste of time. Nemov (talk) 14:00, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I like A. It shows her performing and gives a good overall perspective of her stage presence. MiztuhX (talk) 01:27, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• B. A lot more clearer than the other two. B is also more recent than the other images. Brachy08 _(Talk) 01:45, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• C Is a little sharper, shows her performing and is more 'representative' of her image than A or B. Lukewarmbeer (talk) 06:48, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I vote for C as it is a lot clearer than A and far more representative of her artistic persona (the very reason this page exists in the first place) than B. Monsterofain (talk) 10:06, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I personally prefer B. It’s what she looks like now. Huskago (talk) 07:26, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• A > B > C, but as Snow Rise points out, they’re all fine. I see no issue with the RfC, assuming there has been genuine discussion though; remember, a vote for status quo is different to a vote for an invalid RfC, and although we might think this is a trivial topic, that’s not enough to say it is not valid. At this point I would rather see a quick straw poll of an RfC than a protracted discussion on whether the RfC should be held. — HTGS (talk) 03:47, 7 April 2024 (UTC) (Summoned by bot)[reply]
• C. It is more representative of her as a singer and does not look too outdated. The lighting is not the best, but neither is A or B. Senorangel (talk) 03:07, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• None of these look particularly good. The first one is the best of the three, but there might be better ones on Commons. SWinxy (talk) 18:25, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The one taken at the 62nd Grammys unfortunately was deleted... but I liked it. It was this. Trillfendi (talk) 15:22, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  More specifically, it was this. Isthmus55 (talk) 15:57, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Is there any other recent images to use to update the lead image? Cwater1 (talk) 16:46, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  None that are available in Commons. If someone finds one that is suitable per copyright law, this whole debate can be settled. Trillfendi (talk) 20:55, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The 2020 image could be used if the 2023 image was erased from the Wikipedia, that's if it isn't erased from Wikipedia use. Cwater1 (talk) 16:48, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  It was too long ago for me to remember but yeah, that angle. Trillfendi (talk) 20:54, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• A (preferred) or C. Really, they're all awful to one extent or another, be it blurry, out of focus, low resolution, or some combination of all three. It's no wonder that aggregators of our content replace our image with fair-use images (only showing the main image when explicitly listing Wikipedia as a search result). —Locke Cole • t • c 20:20, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Preferably, there should be an entirely new picture uploaded and used (I'd recommend from the oscars, if possible), given that there don't seem to be any high-quality pictures from after 2015. That said, B is the best option (though commons has a slightly better version, I think). C has poor lighting, and A is extremely low-resolution. Ships & Space_(Edits) 01:53, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A is the perfect lead image for now. It shows her siganture look, which are her cat ears and her ponytail. B isn't really doing her any favors. It doesn't show as a performer or artist, but more as an influencer doing tutorials on YouTube. This isn't Grande's main occupation, it looks random and doesn't stand for what Grande is known for. Plus, she looks unrecognizable in it. I can't see why anyone would think it's a good lead image, even if it's the most recent. C looks very awkward, it looks like someone is making a joke, and she's cracking about it. However, I could see it, working as the main image for her discography article, just because it's more recent. But not as the lead image, A is simply the better image, when you compare them both.

At this point, it's really time for a new image, I'm tired of having the same discussion about the same subject, even when it's clear, that there's no better option at this moment. Grande has started doing press for Wicked, it must be a matter of time until we a good recent image of hers from this year. Mirrored7 (talk) 06:59, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If it were up to me, I would use this image. But sadly it belongs to Shutterstock. Trillfendi (talk) 19:39, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A is best, most dynamic and clear.--Ortizesp (talk) 19:34, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

B2, 2023

I uploaded other frames from the video that B is from, though all (obviously) have the video screenshot quality that tends to look worse than a photograph. Supporters of B might want to consider the photo to the right (B2) as a better candidate, though. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 17:03, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• B or B2 I vote for Image B2 or at least B—it's crystal clear and up-to-date, giving the real scoop on the subject's current look. And let's be honest, Image C is just as blurry and outdated as Image A. So, B is a better choice, in my opinion. Plus, who really cares if the picture highlights "what makes her notable"? I believe it's all about the image quality and relevance to the present. Lililolol (talk) 20:47, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  B2 is 1000% better than the blurry crap that was just uploaded today. Trillfendi (talk) 15:35, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mmh. It's definitely better, than the first one of 2023, but still it's taken from a tutorial. Also, her mouth is awkwardly open. @Lililolol why was the 2015 image changed, there has been no consensus yet? Mirrored7 (talk) 21:03, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Status quo or RFC withdrawn - Don't people get bored of these idiotic RFCs ?, Why does the image need updating?, What does images B and C do that A doesn't (they all show her face). Anyway A works fine, If you wanna see a recent image of her go search recent images on Google. –Davey2010^Talk 21:22, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Davey2010: while I agree that this RfC has some issues, it was put out by an editor in good faith in response to contentious edit warring over the lead image that took place over several months. If given a choice between continued edit warring and an RfC, I think starting an RfC was definitely the better choice. Calling it "idiotic" is not helpful. Thank you, Aoi (青い) (talk) 21:32, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yeah I've only just seen the shit show that is the history, So as such I apologise for my comment - Editor did indeed do the right thing, Unfortunately I wasn't aware of the edit warring prior to the comment so my apologies, Thanks –Davey2010^Talk 21:34, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  While I agree with you, he also has a point. I mean, the discussion has been dragging on for too long, when it's clear, that B is only in conversation because it's the most recent of Grande and C is much worse than both. Mirrored7 (talk) 21:41, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I just want to say that Image C in the lede looks like a great choice. I remember the cat outfits from 2014, but that was a decade ago. I think the new image gives an updated version of her career is at. Starlighsky (talk) 23:15, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree. This RFC has been dragging on for nearly 40 days, and we're still at the same problem as we were then: no consensus, users unaware of this RFC changing the photo, and a lack of any good photos for an A-lister. Maybe we should stick with the 2015 photo for now and add an invisible comment telling users not to change it, and then someone could look into finding a public domain or attributive photo. There's likely tons of material on social media that could be used with permission and known authors, like this one. Isthmus55 (t • c) 03:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree. Keep the 2015 image and add a comment, not to remove this until there is a consensus on the talk page or there is a better option. This would be the best for now. B2 could be an alternative, but as I said, I don't think the 2023 images represent her well as an artist. Mirrored7 (talk) 17:03, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone tell me why the 2015 image was changed to the 2023 photo? There has been no consensus yet. And even then, you clearly cannot tell me that the current one is better. Mirrored7 (talk) 07:40, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think a more updated photo (C) would be more effective. Gives it a more up to date. Cwater1 (talk) 13:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

C is the 2019 photo. That can work though, thought it was the 2023 one but 2019 still works.. The 2023 photo is really more the lastest update, that would be the most effective. Cwater1 (talk) 13:54, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

C is from 2017, so a bit worse than a 2019 pic would be. However, I did find this photo on Commons (using the Vogue Taiwan license), which I find to be a strong improvement over the four photos we have in the RFC rn. Isthmus55 (t • c) 17:10, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the 2024 photo will work. Sorry for thinking that other one was from 2023. Cwater1 (talk) 19:52, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No problem! Isthmus55 (t • c) 20:19, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The 2024 image looks like a good idea. It helps update the article to the present time. Starlighsky (talk) 20:23, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Split: New Met Gala 2024 image

Great. I think we have finally found a great lead photo. Thanks for @Flabshoe1 for adding it! However, I just saw that his version was replaced with an edited one. I think the original isn't dark at all and looks more natural. You can clearly tell that the current one has been heavily enhanced. Instead of you using it for the main article, I would add that to the awards article. Mirrored7 (talk) 13:58, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I don't think it matters much. The only thing that makes the new version of the photo look edited is her dress, which probably should have gone unedited. Isthmus55 (t • c) 14:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1. There was no issue with the image in the first place. It looks more natural, has good lightning, and you can clearly tell it's her. So another version was needed, in my opinion. A lead image has no to be super bright to be a good one.

2. Grande looks much whiter in it, and she has been accused of "Asian and black-fishing" in the past. You can clearly tell that it's edited, especially when you look up the original image. Not a good look.

3. It's not the world, but there was no need to replace it with the "enhanced" one. It has no purpose, besides the visual aspect. Mirrored7 (talk) 16:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Met photo versions

• 
  Unedited
• 
  Edited

Between the edited and unedited versions, I think the edited version is better, mostly because of the better contrast between Grande and the background. Aoi (青い) (talk) 22:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Besides all the points I stated before, it's the fact that is an edited photo. A lead photo should convey how the person really looks like. An edited photo is misleading and doesn't do it all. Mirrored7 (talk) 22:31, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Editing is not inherently bad or misleading. Sometimes it's simple corrections to exposure or enhancing poor lighting conditions. In this case, the edited version is actually closer to her genuine appearance than the original version is. (I prefer the edited version as well.) Prefall 22:59, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree (per Prefall) due to how much more accurate the edited photo is when it comes to her skin tone and the prominence of her features.

"A lead photo should convey how the person really looks like." - When I say "how a person really looks like," I'm referring to how they look in natural lighting (or in this case, faux-natural). If someone is photographed in a pretty dark environment, is that "what they really look like"? If anything, a more edited photo to question would be this file. Isthmus55 (t • c) 23:16, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You said in "natural lighting". This isn't natural lighting. I stand by it and don't think that there was an edited version needed. At all. However, majority wins and it's not the end of the world. At least there is a current photo of her now. Mirrored7 (talk) 00:15, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And as I said right afterwards, "faux-natural", which implies a type of lighting that portrays a person in a similar fashion as if it was actually natural. You're right on that it isn't the end of the world, but we still just finished the several months-long RFC a week ago and don't need to debate over a quite frankly minor part of the photo. Isthmus55 (t • c) 00:19, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, you're right. At this point, the discussion should be closed. Mirrored7 (talk) 00:26, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’m in favor of either version (though maybe slight preference for unedited) as these are by far the best available options for a current available image of Grande. Trillfendi (talk) 18:39, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'm happy, I'm not the only one who prefers the unedited one. So, 2-3.

Still hoping there will be better images of Grande in the near future to use. Mirrored7 (talk) 20:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The photo was just restored to the 2015 version due to the RFC technically not being closed and this new section over its editing being opened up. Right now, there's 3 votes for the edited version and 1 vote for the unedited version (plus Trillfendi stating she doesn't mind either, though prefers unedited). @Trillfendi: Counting your mention of not minding either, this would be a 4–1 vote and might constitute consensus to close this RFC. Isthmus55 (t • c) 14:46, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've boldly split off the new discussion. The connection to the RfC was entirely incidental. Suggest the following:

• First and asap get the RfC closed as "no consensus" or some such.
• Then provisionally replace the old lead image with the original (unedited) version, which looks to be an uncontroversial improvement at this point.
• Then replace that with the (or an) edited version if and when there is consensus for that in turn.

No need to let process get in the way of progress!

- 2A02:560:59D0:2E00:1D94:F5C5:A15F:A110 (talk) 16:13, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus could still be made quickly on the discussion of the edited image. I wouldn't really consider the unedited pic to be the status quo, and closing the first RFC with no consensus will only leave the less desired 9-year-old image up if the second RFC doesn't lead anywhere. I agree with your last statement, but this really just seems like extra steps when we could just have 2 or 3 more users clarify their position and come to a consensus. Isthmus55 (t • c) 16:24, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind the 2015 image at all. It's literally everything, people think about, when they think about Ariana Grande as an artist/performer. I wouldn't mind the Met Gala photo, if it was the unedited version. The edited makes her look juvenile, and Grande is about to become 31. You also can clearly see, that's an edited photo. There was no reason to replace it in the first place. Mirrored7 (talk) 18:58, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind the 2015 image either, but if there's a clearer and more recent photo of someone that accurately and fully shows their face, that should be the preferred option. On the "juvenile" part...is that not just what she looks like nowadays (and a way to describe her looks in most of her years in the public eye)? I'm not talking about paparazzi photos, but her promotional photos for Wicked, the Met Gala, and her album cycle make her appear pretty similar to here. There needs to be more discussion if the editing is that important, however. Isthmus55 (t • c) 19:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anecdotal but let it be known that some of her fans have complained about how outdated the lead image is on her article and have requested for a 2024 Met Gala photo to be used instead. Trillfendi (talk) 19:17, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Trillfendi, Isthmus55, Prefall, and Mirrored7:, page watchers, and others, would anyone object to changing the current image to File:Ariana Grande at the Met Gala 2024 (1).jpg (and thus avoiding another RFC, per Chess's closing statement)? I agree with Isthmus55 that this image has several benefits over the 2015 image: it's clearer, it's of higher resolution, and it more clearly shows her face. I don't think continuing to use the 2015 image in this article is the end of the world (one of the reasons why I did not opine in the RfC above), but I do think that using a clearer, more recent photo of the biography subject, if one is available, would be preferable. Also pinging @Davey2010 and Samuelloveslennonstella, who were the last couple of people to change the profile photo. Aoi (青い) (talk) 23:15, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No objections for me for the same reasons. As for the lighting, the majority of readers don't click and zoom in onto the photo's finest details (of which I don't feel contain any problems), thus the image fits well for a casual viewer scrolling by. Isthmus55 (t • c) 23:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies I was unaware of this RFC existing and I'll be honest I had only read up to half of the closing RFC - Now that I'm now aware of these I'm happy for the image to stay and have reverted my original revert. Given the RFC close mentions lighting and singing which this image ticks and given the image was also mentioned at the very end of the RFC I guess there's no valid reason for the previous image to stay so yeah reverted, apologies again, Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 09:39, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm kinda irritated. I haven't agreed to the change yet and as far as I know Trillfendi was pretty indifferent which version of the Met Gala photo should be used. I still stay by it. The version right now, is too bright, has an unnecessary close-up, her eyes look glassy. There's no reason to use the edited one, if the original had no issues to begin with it. If there would be consensus, I would also consider to keep the 2015 photo, as it's pretty much infamous, and shows her as a performing artist. There is nothing bad about using a much older photo. Justin Bieber's current one is from 2015 also, even if he has much newer ones. Plus, Isthmus55 doesn't mind of it use either. Mirrored7 (talk) 12:59, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I mean, my vote for the 2015 photo was prior to either 2024 version being uploaded. The edited version has also had a major tone-down to the point where the non-edited version looks identical with higher screen-brightness. With Trillfendi saying she didn't mind either version, I don't think it should be counted as a vote for the non-edited version, as your comment is the only comment for it in a month after we finally came to a settled decision. Isthmus55 (t • c) 13:16, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The 2024 image was used way before you you made that comment. What do you mean with "we". Only Aoi and you agreed to keep it. I haven't even replied, and yes, Trillfendi's opinion should be considered too, even if it was a month ago. Mirrored7 (talk) 13:54, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, I didn't realize you were talking about my June 1st comment. But right afterwards, I mention that "if there's a clearer and more recent photo of someone that accurately and fully shows their face, that should be the preferred option," which I still stand by. There's still some opposition to the 2015 photo, and you seem to be the only user continuing this conversation, thus I doubt that the 2015 photo constitutes as consensus. Isthmus55 (t • c) 15:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be too exact, it doesn't fully show her face. This is another issue, the “butterflies?” that she has on. I don't know if this appropriate at all, not that I have an issue with it, I'm just wondering. Also, not everything that is recent has to be the main image. The 2024 image isn't the issue itself, it's the edited version, that was unnecessary. The 2015 would be another option, if there will be no consensus, and should be the current lead image, as discussion hasn't closed yet, even if you say otherwise. Mirrored7 (talk) 19:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I personally think the photo is high quality enough to be her lead image. You're right that discussion is still open, I was just doubting whether anyone is going to be for changing back the picture, as it had been a month of no one disagreeing. I very well could be wrong, though. Isthmus55 (t • c) 20:00, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ariana Grande is a songwriter

For some reason, the occupation “Songwriter” has been removed without any explanation from Grande's info box and lead. Grande has songwriter credits on all of her albums and has been regard as such in the media. I'm tired of things getting removed on this article, just because someone personally doesn't agree with it.

@MidAtlanticBaby can you explain why you did remove it, without any further explanation? Mirrored7 (talk) 10:53, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Davey2010^Talk Can you please re-add it? It has been discussed multiple times in here. The last time, it was three years ago, with consensus to have it stay on both, info box and the lead. It has been unexplained removed today from her info box and last month from her lead. Mirrored7 (talk) 12:08, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Mirrored7,  Done - Readded songwriter to shortdesc, lead and infobox.

@MidAtlanticBaby - If you're going to remove content then at least explain why you're removing it in the edit summary box provided. –Davey2010^Talk 12:42, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 July 2024

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Remove “regarded as a pop icon”. There is no source or definition for that. It is highly subjective and not argumentative or provable by any fact. 2600:1014:B08A:C027:F8E1:EE03:5957:2E4A (talk) 17:11, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: The article provides two sources for this statement. Ligaturama (talk) 17:22, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]