Talk:Ahi Ayna

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Ahi Ayna/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Aintabli (talk · contribs) 16:21, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Cplakidas (talk · contribs) 08:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will take this on shortly. Constantine ✍ 08:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Cplakidas, I'm not sure if you were waiting for me to do some preliminary checks, but I have quickly gone through the article and wanted to notify you about the review that you can start whenever you're free. Aintabli (talk) 23:24, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Lede

• What does Emir adil mean?

  Added translation.

• The Armenian name is transliterated, so it should be in an appropriate template ({{transl|hy}})

   Done

• Please provide a reference for the names in the different languages listed here

  I have added those names to the body with references in order to keep the lead clean.

• Explain briefly what an ahi is, e.g. 'leader of a local brotherhood, known as ahi' or something like that

   Done

• Add Erzincan's approximate location, e.g. 'in northern Anatolia'

   Done

• Add brief context for Eretna as well, e.g. something like 'the local warlord' or 'regional potentate'

   Done

• multiple wars against the Empire of Trebizond and Kingdom of Georgia add that these were neighbouring Christian states

   Done

• Clarify that his predecessor is unknown

   Done Aintabli (talk) 19:58, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Background

• retreat of the Byzantine Empire from the region can you give some more context, or at least a link? I assume the Battle of Manzikert was the decisive event here? I would also recommend moving around Erzincan to this place.

   Done

  Slightly misunderstood my intention: I meant something like 'Following the retreat of the Byzantine Empire from Anatolia after the Battle of Manzikert, the Mengüjekids rose in the region around Erzincan'... Constantine ✍ 13:29, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Copied almost verbatim.

• pushed until Sivas a bit colloquial, perhaps 'reached Sivas'?

   Done

• faced a major defeat better 'suffered a major defeat', as 'face' implies confrontation prior to battle

   Done

• the Ilkhanate rose in West Asia, which was founded by Hulegu Khan (r. 1256–65) slight reordering: 'the Ilkhanate, founded by Hulegu Khan (r. 1256–65), rose in West Asia'

  Much better.  Done

• Clarify that the Empire of Trebizond was Christian and a Byzantine remnant state

   Done Aintabli (talk) 20:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reign

• perhaps add a date either for Bazm u Razm, or for its author?

   Done

• In 'Background' it is stated that the local population of Erzincan was Christian Armenian. Was Ayna also a Christian Armenian?

  He was one of the Muslim rulers that controlled the Armenian-populated land.

  I suggest making explicit that he was Muslim. Do we know anything about his ethnic background? I would recommend adding that too, even if it is the generic 'Turkic'. Constantine ✍ 13:29, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  We don't know of his ethnic background, but I have added an explicit mention that he is Muslim.

• Ahi Ayna first appears in 1348 as a vassal of Eretna, a former Ilkhanid officer who after the dissolution of the Ilkhanate, established a sovereign sultanate (r. 1343–52) this repeats much of what was said about Eretna in the previous section, would recommend removing it here.

  Removed the part about Eretna.

• Suggestion: add that Panaretos was a contemporary of events he describes

   Done

• Per my usual question, would Tur Ali Beg, Muhammad Rikabdar, or Khoja Latif warrant WP:REDLINKs?

  I think it does at least for the first two.

• He returned to Erzincan after 3 days of campaign was inconclusive Who is 'he' here, as there are several people mentioned? And there is something missing in the end; perhaps '...after three days of campaigning, which proved inconclusive'? However, it is not stated what the aim of the campaign was. If it was only a raid for plunder, the short duration and lack of a clear outcome would be expected.

  Clarified it's Ahi Ayna. I don't think it was a plunder. The source states something along those lines, so that it was inconclusive is sourced.

• Ahi Ayna exercised autonomy reads odd; 'Ahi Ayna enjoyed more autonomy' or 'Ahi Ayna was left with more autonomy'? And add from whom Ayna enjoyed more autonomy from.

  Chose the second option. Clarified it's autonomy within the Eretnids.

• Ghiyath al-Din Ahi Ayna Beg and Ahi Ayna Beg, I suggest sticking to a single way of calling your subject, just 'Ahi Ayna' will do
• Give some context on Abu Bakr Qutbi (time and place), perhaps also a redlink?

  Added that he was a fourteenth century writer but not sure about the place.

  That's fine, but I would recommend having these contextual details in the main article, not the footnote. Always assume that your readers won't bother with the footnotes ;). Constantine ✍ 14:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Ah okay, thanks for this great tip. I have specified it outside a footnote.

• Kemah was under the administration of a governor instead of a vassal emir like Ahi Ayna a governor of Ahi Ayna's? The juxtaposition with Ahi Ayna as 'vasal emir' is a bit confusing as this sentence deals with vassals of Ahi Ayna...

  Clarified.

• Add regnal dates for Ghiyath al-Din Muhammad I

   Done Sorry for missing this.

• suggesting a violent death not only a violent death, but likely on campaign against the Christians, or not?

  No, it's not mentioned in the source.

• He "gained independence" the last person mentioned is Ahi Ayna

  Added "Pir Husayn".

• The map is, unfortunately, not very helpful. Lacking a better one, the expedient of the geophysical map with pins like at Eretna would surely be more useful.

  I think using pins would be somewhat similar to the process of creating a map, which requires sources. But I have added a location map with some of the cities mentioned. Aintabli (talk) 20:37, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Would still suggest replacing File:Eretnid domains.png with File:Beylicats d%u2019Anatolie vers 1330-en.svg, as the latter gives more political context. But this is entirely optional. Constantine ✍ 14:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yeah, there is a real need for a properly-sourced, non-anachronistic, detailed map. Another issue is that since Erzincan is to the northeastern corner of that map, which doesn't show any states close to the town other than the Eretnids, Canik, and Trebizond, I doubt it will be helpful within this context. One solution I can come up with is adding tags that denote the neighboring states to the current map we have (with the sources I have access to like this one). To be more specific, the map may read "Empire of Trebizond" exactly where this source has it but without explicit borders (which would require meticulous work with a large number of sources).

Nice work, looks fairly comprehensive. I will do a final check including source spotcheck once the above comments are addressed. Constantine ✍ 19:34, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Cplakidas, wanted to give you a heads-up in case you didn't notice my comments above. I now realize that I forgot to respond to one of your suggestions, but I have addressed it in my edits (sticking to a single way of calling Ahi Ayna). Aintabli (talk) 19:04, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aintabli: a few minor issues left, and I still have to do the spotcheck, which I promise to do within the next week. Otherwise good to go :). Constantine ✍ 14:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the review once again! Aintabli (talk) 22:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Spotcheck done (Peacock, Bryer, Shukurov), AGF on paywalled/non-English sources. Good to go and well done! Constantine ✍ 14:23, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.