In the article it says Christian orthodoxs. Is that a typo or a way to spell the plural of the word orthodox?
This location is not on Mount Moriah, but on Zion and excluded Biblically from being the location. 2600:6C40:7E7F:F9E8:41B8:366E:1464:A94E (talk) 17:30, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
@Adam Bishop: hi. Please do reverse your latest edit. You are presenting opinions as facts.
Judging by the latest research on what happened to the tombs of the female royals at the Tomb of Mary, where the Greeks did precisely that what Burton says, that is: throw them out and destroy them, it seems at least plausible that the same could have happened at the Holy Sepulchre. As long as there's no proof, your guess is as good as mine, anyway. And as they're digging around that area right now, we might (might) have a positive answer quite soon about the presence of human remains deep below the floor. No clarity about what the Greeks did though. But think of the fact that the only remains of the tombs are in the Greek Patriarchate's museum. And Burton came just a few decades after the events. Would a jury indight and sentence based on this? I don't know. Would I start a new Crimean War because of it? I'll totally leave that to comrade Vladimir Vladimirovich. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 22:12, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
PS: The Greek Orthodox did what they considered to be their historic right, taking back for ortho-doxy what Crusaders and later schismatics had stolen. As they did with the Latin-inscribed silver star at the Grotto of the Nativity and wherever else it was "needed". PC is totally out of place here, those were not woke times. Arminden (talk) 22:19, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
Our colleague Magnolia677 has removed from "External links" a website, NOT introduced by me, with excellent photos due to the fact that the website is of a commercial nature. I have just written to her and intend to revert her edit - once. Here is what I wrote:
I just recently removed a homepage of an actress-turned-real estate vendor because it was pure advertisement with no information value to the actress's Wiki article. So no need to convince me about such cases. But here
(B.t.w.: there is no price, no $ or € symbol, no icon of a shopping cart, NOTHING to indicate they're trying to sell anything! So actually quite stupid/useless as a sales platform, if indeed it is one?, on the WWW!)
I have ABSOLUTELY no interest in edit-warring on this. I'm just firmly convinced that the pics are of great benefit for users & editors accessing from home, and I know a lot about the site and I've been editing a lot at this article. So pls, leave it in.
Thank you! Arminden (talk) 12:36, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
Both refs don't seem useful. Bokenkotter p. 155 mentions neither Hakim & 1009, nor the expulsion of Jews; MacCulloch p. 1339 is hard to find (e-book; the indicated URL, a search result, leads to table of content page referring to smth else), if page number added directly to URL (PA1339, RA1339) it leads to much earlier events, plus: searches for Hakim or 1009 are leading nowhere, access date is missing... The edit isn't trustworthy!
In short: two correct statements, but as of now completely unsourced.
PS: We know about the Crusades. Re. Jews, see for instace Persecutions in France (987–1137), in Limoges etc. Arminden (talk) 21:17, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
I very much doubt it should be placed under Status Quo: this connection was only claimed in a 2018 statement written by church leaders involved in the dispute and penned in a very rhetorical tone. The issue of land sales to commercial companies A) didn't, and cannot possibly affect in any way any right inscribed in the Status Quo regulations, as it didn't touch on any holy site at all, and B) if we are even to start talking of it here, although it has NO tangency with the Status Quo, property prices fell substantially as lease contracts approached end of their (50? 100-year?) duration and large numbers of house owners & tenants feared huge losses in property value or outright eviction. This concerning commercial ownership by the 2nd largest real estate owner in the country, i.e. the Greek Orthodox Church. In any less "holy" land, this wouldn't have made the int'l press, and if, then only in order to attack the hypocritical wolf-in-sheep's-skin ecclesiastical institution, see Vatical scandals.
The Ateret Kohanim purchase, which was a secret deal between two unpleasant parties, a Jewish-fundamentalist "all is ours" side, and a Greek "screw the Arabs" side, is also framed in rhetorical, propagandistic terms ("Christian access to HSC will be denied"). Access to the HSC is through 2 gates, the western one is nowhere next to the Ateret purchases (there's just a mosque there), while the other gate is just somewhat near, but in no way adjacent to the new Ateret grabs. So the usual PR BS, move along, nothing to see here. This in terms of Status Quo, not of aggressive expansion of ultranationalistic Jewish settler presence, and of interethnic and financing & administrative issues within the Orthodox Church.
Last not least: much of the land property of the Orthodox Church in Palestine is the result of purchases which postdate at least the 1750s firman, if not the 1850s follow-ups. They really aren't covered by any SQ clause, which only deal with holy sites, not with 19th-century real estate developments like the Muristan. The church leaders tried to use their only strong leverage by temporarily closing the HSC, but that's an artificial means of creating an otherwise inexistant connection.
So let's find another context for all this, preferably NOT in this article, and certainly not under Status Quo. Arminden (talk) 01:35, 28 December 2023 (UTC)